Jump stop vs "up and down"

[Nevadaref]

WOW, this is the most incorrect that I've ever seen JR be on this forum.

JR is incorrect about how the dribble ends.
JR is incorrect that the intent of the player matters.
JR is incorrect that this movement is traveling.

The play is a perfectly legal jump stop.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by docofficial

Player A1 ends his dribble and jumps off one foot in an apparent attempt to try for a goal. Player B1 jumps to block the try. So A1 does not release the ball and lands on the floor with both feet simultaneously.

NFHS exam question...taken verbatim from above....

A1 jumps to try for goal. B1 also jumps and B1 touches the ball in an attempt to block the try but B1's touch did not prevent A1 from passing or trying. A1 now returns to the floor on both feet simultaneously while still holding the ball. The official called A1 for traveling. Was the official correct?

True or False?



If B1 didn't touch the ball and A1 returned to the floor with the ball and landed with both feet simultaneously without shooting or passing it, did A1 travel?

Nevada et al? Answers?

[Nevadaref]

The exam question is written with the assumption that A1 had both feet on the floor or had established a pivot prior to jumping.

I could just as easily post an NFHS exam question about a jump stop and ask for your answer. But like your post it wouldn't prove anything because it would not be specific to the circumstances of the play under discussion.

Just accept that you are not correct on this one.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Just accept that you are not correct on this one.

Has this ever happened?

[truerookie]

Ok, so the majority states that this is a legal jump stop. I am not still buying it!!!!!

So now we as officials are saying, as long as, A1 ENDS THE DRIBBLE, jumps off one foot for a shot attempt, realizes the ATTEMPT will be block, hold the ball; return to the floor with both feet hitting simulatanously that would be considered a legal JUMP STOP? GOT IT!!!!!!!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I don't follow either.

Suppose A1 raises one foot as if to start a lay-up, sees that the shot will be blocked, and puts the foot back on the floor. That's not illegal (I don't htink), so I don't see why an otherwise-legal jump stop would be illegal.

And very early on the most relevant post, which should have decided this, is posted. Now I'll read the rest to see what the controversy is.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And very early on the most relevant post, which should have decided this, is posted. Now I'll read the rest to see what the controversy is.

I see a problem. If judged that A1 gather the ball for a shot attempt and (Continous Motion) came into play (IN JUDGEMENT) and A1 GOT foul. Would that be considered a shooting foul after A1 gathered the ball for a shot attempt and return back to the floor?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Has this ever happened?

Yeah, in the past JR has been man enough to admit when he is mistaken. Eventually, and after a great deal of wrangling.
Of course, it doesn't happen often because it isn't necessary often.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by truerookie

I see a problem. If judged that A1 gather the ball for a shot attempt and (Continous Motion) came into play (IN JUDGEMENT) and A1 GOT foul. Would that be considered a shooting foul after A1 gathered the ball for a shot attempt and return back to the floor?

Determining the act of shooting involves a judgment decision by an official. Determining traveling does not. Traveling is based simply upon foot movement. All the official does is observe it.

[deecee]

Same scenario except

a. defender blocks the shot and A1 is unable to release the shot and returns to the floor with both feet
b. its a legal jump stop that the defender grabs and then A1 lands legally on both feet and regains sole control of the ball

so by some of your description NEITHER of these is a jump ball?

[docofficial]

Thanks for all the good discussion.

Some of these latter posts are getting to the heart of the matter: there are some interesting implications if it's not a travel. I, frankly, think the jump stop should not be allowed. It's too difficult to officiate (we've got to watch the defender [referee the defense] and still observe if the feet come down simulateously, the offense already has enough advantage in this game - they don't need another move at their disposal, and per this discussion, a smart coach and player could use the rule as its written to a tremendous advantage.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by deecee

Same scenario except

a. defender blocks the shot and A1 is unable to release the shot and returns to the floor with both feet
b. its a legal jump stop that the defender grabs and then A1 lands legally on both feet and regains sole control of the ball

so by some of your description NEITHER of these is a jump ball?

a. If the touch by the defender prevents the release, it is a held ball.

b. Judgment call. It depends on whether or not "undue roughness" was needed to regain control.

[deecee]

I do think intent plays a roll in this call. I personally have a jump ball in scenario A that I gave and I do believe its a travel. The jump stop was never intended in how the OP phrased his question and in this case I would dare any of you officials NOT call this a travel at camp, or in any game of any importance.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

a. If the touch by the defender prevents the release, it is a held ball.

b. Judgment call. It depends on whether or not "undue roughness" was needed to regain control.

I dont see how you can argue 2 different things here when you dont think this is a travel to begin with. If b is a judgement call to you then so should a.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by deecee

Same scenario except

a. defender blocks the shot and A1 is unable to release the shot and returns to the floor with both feet
b. its a legal jump stop that the defender grabs and then A1 lands legally on both feet and regains sole control of the ball

so by some of your description NEITHER of these is a jump ball?

a. is a held ball

I have a difficult time answering b. because your writing isn't clear. Was A1 airborne and attempting a try or pass which was prevented from being released? If so, then that would be a held ball as well, but if A1 was merely holding the ball and never tried to pass or shoot, then it wouldn't be a held ball as clearly control was able to be established without undue roughness.

BTW the proper term is held ball. A jump ball is when the referee tosses the ball in the center circle.