rebound, pass

[mutantducky]

If you catch a rebound while in the air, say clearly established control and make a pass before landing. Would the same player be able to get the ball without it being a violation?
If control wasn't clear, a tip pass I assume you could go get it.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

If you catch a rebound while in the air, say clearly established control and make a pass before landing. Would the same player be able to get the ball without it being a violation?
If control wasn't clear, a tip pass I assume you could go get it.

Yes. Assuming it hit the floor in the process, it would simply be a dribble....no different if they had done so after landing.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Yes. Assuming it hit the floor in the process, it would simply be a dribble....no different if they had done so after landing.

Are you contending that the ball must hit the floor for this action to be legal?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Are you contending that the ball must hit the floor for this action to be legal?

I can't envision a player grabbing a rebound with two hands, making a pass and then grabbing that pass in mid-air- all without landing. Sounds almost physically impossible to me.

[Nevadaref]

JR,
Here is the question:
A1 jumps and catches a rebound. While still airborne he throws a high lob pass which will land about 10 feet away from his position. After he lands, he quickly runs over and catches the ball before it strikes the floor.
Is this a legal play or some kind of violation?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

JR,
Here is the question:
A1 jumps and catches a rebound. While still airborne he throws a high lob pass which will land about 10 feet away from his position. After he lands, he quickly runs over and catches the ball before it strikes the floor.
Is this a legal play or some kind of violation?

Illegal dribble. 4.15.4E(b) (from an older book that I have by computer)....

A1 throws the ball over the head of B1 and then takes several steps before catching it. RULING: an illegal dribble violation....since the ball did not thouch the floor, the tossing and subsequent catch is an illegal dribble.

The fact that it was thrown over B1's head in the case play is not really relevant as that really has nothing to do with the illegal dribble rule but is only there to set up the scenario.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Illegal dribble. 4.15.4E(b) (from an older book that I have by computer)....

A1 throws the ball over the head of B1 and then takes several steps before catching it. RULING: an illegal dribble violation....since the ball did not thouch the floor, the tossing and subsequent catch is an illegal dribble.

The fact that it was thrown over B1's head in the case play is not really relevant as that really has nothing to do with the illegal dribble rule but is only there to set up the scenario.

Camron,
I'm obviously aware of that case book ruling, which has now been altered to a traveling violation.
I question its applicability to this situation for the following reason. A1 was airborne when throwing the ball. That's not true in the case play.

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

JR,
Here is the question:
A1 jumps and catches a rebound. While still airborne he throws a high lob pass which will land about 10 feet away from his position. After he lands, he quickly runs over and catches the ball before it strikes the floor.
Is this a legal play or some kind of violation?

I don't see a violation because A1 never established a pivot foot.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

I don't see a violation because A1 never established a pivot foot.

That might be relevant to traveling, but not to illegal dribble or other violations, which was kinda his point.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

I don't see a violation because A1 never established a pivot foot.

It is possible to travel without having ever had a pivot foot.

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

It is possible to travel without having ever had a pivot foot.

True, however, that is not the case here and as Nevada has pointed out 4.15.4E(b) doesn't fit.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Camron,
I'm obviously aware of that case book ruling, which has now been altered to a traveling violation.
I question its applicability to this situation for the following reason. A1 was airborne when throwing the ball. That's not true in the case play.

Where in the case play does it actually say that A1 was not airborne? (I know, it is implied, but it doesn't actually say it )

That said, the point and intent of the case is that a player who has caught the ball (has player control) can not just throw the ball up into the air and run and catch it. The only legal ways to move the ball that is under player control are by shooting, passing or dribbling....and this is neither a shot, a pass or a dribble. (The ball may also be moved through involuntary loss of player control...fumble, opponent knocking the ball free, etc.)

It is a movement not intended to be legal. A player who has done so, according to the new version of the case play has traveled only because they are considered to be virtually holding the ball the entire time (that is the only way to get a travel out of that case play).

This is not unlike the player who is in control of the ball while sitting on the floor. If they place the ball on the floor, stand up, then grab the ball, they have traveled...because they are considered to be effectively holding the ball the entire time.

EDIT: Note that if the airborne player were to land, and without further movement of the feet, catch the ball they would not have traveled....as would be allowed had they held onto the ball the entire time and as is consistent with the case play where a player, while standing in one spot, tosses the ball from hand to hand.

Imagine the possibility if this were not a violation....A4 catches a rebound and, before landing, tosses it up into the air away from other players. A4 chases it down, jumps, catches it, and does the same thing again....and again...and again...all the way to the other end of the court where they finally catch it and dunk it. Hmmmm.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Imagine the possibility if this were not a violation....A4 catches a rebound and, before landing, tosses it up into the air away from other players. A4 chases it down, jumps, catches it, and does the same thing again....and again...and again...all the way to the other end of the court where they finally catch it and dunk it. Hmmmm.

An interesting point, but bear in mind you can legally do something similar to that with your feet on the floor.

For example, A1 is in the backcourt and attempts a try for goal. Player/team control has ended. A1 chases down the ball and catches it. Control is back. A1 repeats, and repeats, and repeats. You can't call travelling, because control ends on each "shot."

It sounds to me like we need to define when player control ended in the OP. If it began when the player secured the ball, did it end when he released the ball on the pass? If so, the travelling rule only covers when there is one or two feet on the floor, not zero.

If the ball hits the floor before retrieval, I can see a case for a dribble. If he simply catches his own "pass," I don't see anything illegal yet.

[SmokeEater]

I'll throw this in the mix as well.

The rebounder is jumping up several times and using a controlled tip to him/herself to keep the ball away from a defender until they can gather it with both hands. As a result of the tips the player moves several feet from the initial rebounding location. Some would call this good rebounding skills some may not.

Have they now done a similar act as what was in the OP?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bainsey

It sounds to me like we need to define when player control ended in the OP. If it began when the player secured the ball, did it end when he released the ball on the pass?

What pass?

You need to learn basic definitions, Bainsey. Read NFHS rule 4-31 and then tell us how that can be a pass.