rebound, pass

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Ok, found it. NCAA 2010 Case Book:

A.R. 88 - A1, after: (1) receiving a pass; or (2) ending his/her dribble, passes the ball to A2. Before receiving the pass, A2 leaves the area on a cut to the basket. A1 goes to the area vacated by A2 and recovers the ball.

RULING: In order for a pass to occur, the thrown ball must be touched by another player. This did not occur in (1) or (2).

(1) A1's attempted pass was the start of his/her dribble. When he/she recovered the ball and started another dribble he/she would've committed a violation. (Had A1, after releasing the pass, which was the start of a dribble, not recovered the ball but rather continued to dribble, it would not have been a violation.)

(2) A1 had previously ended a dribble before his/her attempted pass to A2. A1's release of the ball on his/her attempted pass to A2 was the start of a second dribble. When A1 recovered the ballhe/she ended the dribble. A1 committed the violation after he/she touched the ball. (Rule 4-21.2 and 9-7.1.c)

All fine, but not relevant. The assumption in that play is that the ball had hit the floor. Nnormal/typical is the assumption in all case plays unless otherwise stated and I don't know that there has ever been a player fast enough to throw a normal/typical pass and run to catch it without the ball hitting the floor.

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Rule 4-21 by the way, is the dribble rule. 4-21.2 says, "The dribble may be started by pushing, throwing, tapping, or batting the ball to the playing court."

Some would argue that "to the playing court" doesn't happen unless it reaches the playing court....just like a pass isn't a pass until it reaches another player ...

"A pass is movement of the ball caused by a player who throws, bats or rolls the ball to another player."

Plus, the touch it twice restriction is "during a dribble", not in the start of a dribble.

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

So, given the fact there is no real difference between the 2 codes on the dribble and travel rules (other than perhaps the word "throw" in 4-21), I feel it's safe to assume this A.R. gives us the intent of the dribble rule is to include a throw that is recovered by the same player, and thus subject to the other restrictions in the dribble rule.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

All fine, but not relevant. The assumption in that play is that the ball had hit the floor. Nnormal/typical is the assumption in all case plays unless otherwise stated and I don't know that there has ever been a player fast enough to throw a normal/typical pass and run to catch it without the ball hitting the floor.

Huh? What about the original play?

If you can find where that's specifically mentioned or assumed, let me know. In the meantime, if a player starts a dribble with their left hand, and the right hand hits the ball in another direction before the ball hits the floor, I'm still calling a violation. Aren't you?

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Some would argue that "to the playing court" doesn't happen unless it reaches the playing court....just like a pass isn't a pass until it reaches another player ...

Care to name names?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Huh? What about the original play?

See post #2 for the answer to that. The OP was also under the assumption that the ball hit the floor. The discussion then led to the possibility of the player catcing it before the ball ever hit the floor.

If the ball hits the floor, we clearly have a dribble. There is no issue on that point....it is legal. The only point of discussion is if it is done where the ball doesn't hit the floor.

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

If you can find where that's specifically mentioned or assumed, let me know. In the meantime, if a player starts a dribble with their left hand, and the right hand hits the ball in another direction before the ball hits the floor, I'm still calling a violation. Aren't you?

Nope. Since the player can legally toss the ball from one hand to the other as long as the pivot foot doesn't move what is there to call? It is not a dribble, illegal or legal. It is nothing at all. That right hand might just catch the ball or bat it back to the left hand where they can legally catch it.

I might, however, get them for lifting the pivot foot before releasing the ball to dribble if the foot comes up before the ball is released from that right hand.