Block/Player Control/No Call

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I wish we could post diagrams on this thing (and not just online images), but let's try this...

A1 is the airborne shooter. B2 is the defender.
Point X is the spot on the floor where A1 takes off; point Y is where A1 lands. The resulting airborne "path" is line XY.

When A1 leaves the floor, B2 has obtained LGP next to XY. Before A1 lands, B2 maintains LGP by moving laterally into XY.

Scrapper, does this illustrate your point?

It's might illustrate Scrappy's point but it sureasheck doesn't even come close to illustrating mine and everybody elses.

B1 didn't obtain LGP NEXT to anybody. B1 obtained LGP in FRONT of A1. In a1's DIRECT path. At NO time in the situation being discussed did the defender EVER move LATERALLY. Laterally means sideways. At ALL times, the defender was moving straight BACKWARDS. There's a big difference.

XY is a straight-line path going backwards. B1 was never next to XY. B1 was always somewhere on XY. And B1 was moving from X to Y before A1 took off.

[M&M Guy]

Ok, this has been a kind of entertaining discussion.

Fwiw, I actually see and understand Scrappy's point about the defender arriving at the spot where the airborne player will land. We all agree that according to 4-23-4(b), the defender must be in the "landing spot" (legal position) before the airborne player leaves the floor. I think we are all in agreement in that.

His point is that it appears, within a strict reading of the rules, it does not provide any specific protection if that airborne player will land behind the defender, if the defender is still moving and not in the "landing spot" before the airborne player left the floor.

I agree with the practical application that it will be a PC or incidental contact in that specific instance. But, if I was discussing a literal interpretation of the rules, I cannot come up with any reason why one rule of guarding (defender has the right to move laterally or obliquely) "overrides" another rule (defender must obtain the spot before the airborne player leaves the floor).

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I wish we could post diagrams on this thing (and not just online images), but let's try this...

A1 is the airborne shooter. B2 is the defender.
Point X is the spot on the floor where A1 takes off; point Y is where A1 lands. The resulting airborne "path" is line XY.

When A1 leaves the floor, B2 has obtained LGP next to XY. Before A1 lands, B2 maintains LGP by moving laterally into XY.

Scrapper, does this illustrate your point?

That's a clear blocking foul. There's a case book play which says so.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

It's might illustrate Scrappy's point but it sureasheck doesn't even come close to illustrating mine and everybody elses.

B1 didn't obtain LGP NEXT to anybody. B1 obtained LGP in FRONT of A1. In a1's DIRECT path. At NO time in the situation being discussed did the defender EVER move LATERALLY. Laterally means sideways. At ALL times, the defender was moving straight BACKWARDS. There's a big difference.

XY is a straight-line path going backwards. B1 was never next to XY. B1 was always somewhere on XY. And B1 was moving from X to Y before A1 took off.

My post was as JR writes. B1 is at point Z, which lies between X and Y, when A1 goes airborne. B1 is moving from point Z to point Y at the same time as airborne A1 is moving from X to Y, but at a slower rate of speed, so that they both reach point Y at the same time and a crash results.

That's the scenario up for discussion.