end of game

[Zoochy]

Game is tied. A1 is fouled just before the horn sounds to end the game. Team A is in the bonus. A1 goes to the line to attempt the free throw. B1 wants to occupy a lane space. We eventually removed him to allow A1's attempt. What if B1 did not leave? Lane violation if free throw is missed? Or Unsportsmanship Technical foul?

[Nevadaref]

Remember the rules state that when the ball is to remain dead following the final FT players shall not occupy the marked lane spaces. They aren't required to leave the court or such, so this simply means that they must follow the requirements for players not in marked lane spaces, ie be behind the FT line extended and outside of the 3pt line.

So if a player is inside of that restricted area, then a FT violation has been committed.

The player could be charged with a technical foul for failing to adhere to the official's instruction, but that seems over the top to me.

[Nevadaref]

PS I always read your posts because you ask great questions. I've learned plenty from some of your keen observations.

[Zoochy]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

PS I always read your posts because you ask great questions. I've learned plenty from some of your keen observations.

Well thank you!!! I too always respect you Statements, Comments, and opinions.

[mbyron]

Well, if the love fest is over, I have a comment to add.

I could see calling a lane violation here, but I would also communicate with the player. "You're not allowed in the lane. If you remain, he gets to keep shooting till he makes them both." If we're talking about the real world, that would probably be sufficient.

As a practical matter, at lower levels where it might take 25 minutes for a kid to make 2 free throws, I could see assessing a T for non-compliance. I agree with Nevada that this would be over the top as first resort.

Of course, if he's not clearing the lane for one kind of FT, why would he leave for the other?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

PS I always read your posts because you ask great questions. I've learned plenty from some of your keen observations.

Originally Posted by Zoochy

Well thank you!!! I too always respect you Statements, Comments, and opinions.

Get a room.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

B1 wants to occupy a lane space. .... Lane violation if free throw is missed? Or Unsportsmanship Technical foul?

I suppose it matters how badly he wants it.

"I'd like to occupy a lane space." Violation if missed.

"I'm taking this lane space, ref!" Technical.

"Get back, ref, before I punch you in the face!" Flagrant.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I suppose it matters how badly he wants it.

"I'm taking this lane space, ref!" Technical.

Really?

I think I'd just say "OK....it will be a violation if the shooter misses".....let the shot happen....call the violation if missed.

[Tio]

If the foul occurred before the end of the game, shouldn't there be some time on the clock?

If you do choose to clear the lane and a player refuses. That would fall under your delay of game/unsporting infractions.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Tio

If the foul occurred before the end of the game, shouldn't there be some time on the clock?

Not necessarily. If none of the officials see time on the clock after the whistle blows, there will be no time on the clock when the FTs are shot.

Originally Posted by Tio

If you do choose to clear the lane and a player refuses. That would fall under your delay of game/unsporting infractions.

Just go with a delayed violation, IMO. No need to make this harder than that.

The way this will play out:
"ref, I want to stand on the lane."
"Well, if you do, it's a violation."
"Never mind."

[Tio]

I respectfully disagree with this interpretation.

I am not administrating the free throw until the player vacates the marked lane spaces. By rule he is delaying the administration of a free throw - according to rule 10 in the NCAA manual.

As far as the time is concerned, there is never an excuse for a 3-person crew to not be fully aware of game clocks/shot clocks ESPECIALLY at the end of a ballgame. If the foul occured before the clock shows zeroes, the exact time when the whistle blew should be put back on the clock. Otherwise, if the foul ocurred at or following the expiration of time it is ignored.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Tio

I respectfully disagree with this interpretation.

I am not administrating the free throw until the player vacates the marked lane spaces. By rule he is delaying the administration of a free throw - according to rule 10 in the NCAA manual.

As far as the time is concerned, there is never an excuse for a 3-person crew to not be fully aware of game clocks/shot clocks ESPECIALLY at the end of a ballgame. If the foul occured before the clock shows zeroes, the exact time when the whistle blew should be put back on the clock. Otherwise, if the foul ocurred at or following the expiration of time it is ignored.

Fair enough; let's just say I feel more confident in explaining a violation to my assigner, based on very direct rules backing, than I would in using rule 10 to justify a T for delaying making the ball live. He's not delaying unless you let him. Simply give the ball to the shooter, now it's live.

As for the end of game situation; you can be aware all you want, but if the foul occurs with roughly .2 second left, by the time the on-ball official blows the whistle causing the partner to look at the clock, the horn will have blown.

[Adam]

Let me set it this way, tio.

Normal FT for A1. B5 is not along the lane, but drops along the 3 pt line to a spot even with the lower block. You tell him to move up, and he doesn't.

What do you do?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Let me set it this way, tio.

Normal FT for A1. B5 is not along the lane, but drops along the 3 pt line to a spot even with the lower block. You tell him to move up, and he doesn't.

What do you do?

Tell him to move, and if he doesn't (and is persistent about it, ....) then I T him up.

I agree with Tio in the OP (but it's all theoretical -- it will never come to that).

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Tio

As far as the time is concerned, there is never an excuse for a 3-person crew to not be fully aware of game clocks/shot clocks ESPECIALLY at the end of a ballgame. If the foul occured before the clock shows zeroes, the exact time when the whistle blew should be put back on the clock. Otherwise, if the foul ocurred at or following the expiration of time it is ignored.

This can happen even if the crew is perfectly aware of the time....

A1 goes up to shoot, releases the ball, horn sounds, and before A1 lands, B5 crashes into A1 knocking A1 into the 3rd row. The time legitamately ran out prior to the ball becoming dead or the shooter lands.

Even more common...

A1 goes up to shoot and, before A1 lands, B5 crashes into A1, horn sounds, whistle sounds (patient whistle...as it is generally bad habit to blow the whistle the instant there is contact). This is not all that unreasonable and, without video replay to get the exact time the foul occured, there will be no basis for adding time back to the clock...but the foul occurred before the horn and is sufficient to warrant a foul.