end of game

[Zoochy]

Originally Posted by Tio

I respectfully disagree with this interpretation.

I am not administrating the free throw until the player vacates the marked lane spaces. By rule he is delaying the administration of a free throw - according to rule 10 in the NCAA manual.

So... you are going to allow B1 to linger before you administrate the Free Throw to A1. You are playing right into his hands. You are helping B1 'Ice' the shooter.
We got grilled from one of our observers because we did not administrate the Free Throw in an appropriate time frame. Once I informed B1 that if he did not move, then A1 was going to shoot the free throw until he made it. That got him to obey.
Unless the game clock was staring us in the face we were not going to be able to observe the time. Our lag time to turn our heads to see the clock would have been slower than the lag time of the game clock timekeeper.

[Tio]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

So... you are going to allow B1 to linger before you administrate the Free Throw to A1. You are playing right into his hands. You are helping B1 'Ice' the shooter.
We got grilled from one of our observers because we did not administrate the Free Throw in an appropriate time frame. Once I informed B1 that if he did not move, then A1 was going to shoot the free throw until he made it. That got him to obey.
Unless the game clock was staring us in the face we were not going to be able to observe the time. Our lag time to turn our heads to see the clock would have been slower than the lag time of the game clock timekeeper.

I am going to "ask" him to go where he belongs. If he refuses, I will proceed with the delay process. You chose a different way to get through this and I applaud your efforts. However, I don't believe the rules support administering a free throw with anyone in the lane when the ball is to become dead after the final shot. If the rules & actions support my call, I never have to worry about my decision.

With the clock, I would probably get rid of the lagtime term. This term was removed from the NFHS manual a couple of years ago. On every play, there is a 3rd official away who should be all over the clock. Things can get complicated if you are in an auxiliary gym with only one clock on the baseline. The way I read the OP was that the whistle clearly sounded before the expiration of time. If that is the case, the crew needs to be really good and know the remaining time. Especially true at the end of a close ballgame.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Tio

I am going to "ask" him to go where he belongs. If he refuses, I will proceed with the delay process. You chose a different way to get through this and I applaud your efforts.

Just curious, so a few questions:

Would you hold up the administration of a normal FT if a player were standing outside of the 3pt line, but well below the FT line extended?

Would you ask this player to go where he belongs?

What penalty would you assess if he doesn't move?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Just curious, so a few questions:

Would you hold up the administration of a normal FT if a player were standing outside of the 3pt line, but well below the FT line extended?

Would you ask this player to go where he belongs?

What penalty would you assess if he doesn't move?

Yes, Yes, T.

What do you do if you notice A and B occupying the "opposite spaces" before you administer a FT? What if B chooses not to occupy a space and A puts an "extra" player in there? What if B tries to go "below" the block?

I ask them to move, and they do. If they refused, then I'd deal with that.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Yes, Yes, T.

What do you do if you notice A and B occupying the "opposite spaces" before you administer a FT? What if B chooses not to occupy a space and A puts an "extra" player in there? What if B tries to go "below" the block?

I ask them to move, and they do. If they refused, then I'd deal with that.

Bob,
I agree that the officials should check that the players are properly lined up prior to administering the FT.

I'm not sure that a T is the proper penalty. What rule would you point to for issuing a T here?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Bob,
I agree that the officials should check that the players are properly lined up prior to administering the FT.

I'm not sure that a T is the proper penalty. What rule would you point to for issuing a T here?

Failing to allow the ball to become live -- 10-3-6(?) The same rule used when the FTer is not in the semi-circle.

[Tio]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Just curious, so a few questions:

Would you hold up the administration of a normal FT if a player were standing outside of the 3pt line, but well below the FT line extended?

Would you ask this player to go where he belongs?

What penalty would you assess if he doesn't move?

According to NCAA rules there are 2 specific free throw administration sequences:

1. When ball is live on an unsuccessful final attempt. (typical result)

2. When the ball is to become dead after the final attempt regardless of a make/miss. (Technical, intentional fouls and when complicated by the expiration of time)

For scenario 1, we have the resumption of play procedure if the players will not line up properly. So for your scenario where a player is below 3 pt line extended, we can go ahead and call a violation. I would ask the player to move first.

For scenario 2, all the rules say is that players shall not line up along the marked lane spaces. If a player lines up and doesn't move I would cite:

Rule 10.2.5

Art. 5. A team shall not delay the game, when the game clock is not running,
by:

b. After a team warning has been issued, repeatedly delaying the game
by preventing the ball from being promptly put in play, such as
delaying the administration of a throw-in or free throw by engaging
in a team huddle anyplace on the playing court

My 2 cents.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Tio

I am going to "ask" him to go where he belongs. If he refuses, I will proceed with the delay process. You chose a different way to get through this and I applaud your efforts. However, I don't believe the rules support administering a free throw with anyone in the lane when the ball is to become dead after the final shot. If the rules & actions support my call, I never have to worry about my decision.

What's "the delay process?"

Originally Posted by Tio

With the clock, I would probably get rid of the lagtime term. This term was removed from the NFHS manual a couple of years ago. On every play, there is a 3rd official away who should be all over the clock. Things can get complicated if you are in an auxiliary gym with only one clock on the baseline. The way I read the OP was that the whistle clearly sounded before the expiration of time. If that is the case, the crew needs to be really good and know the remaining time. Especially true at the end of a close ballgame.

While lagtime isn't in the book; all that means is we can put .5 back up if that's what we see. The problem is, there is still a human reaction time that is going to take a brief moment to look at the clock. As has been pointed out, a lot of times you'll have foul, horn, whistle.
And in the situations where you have foul, whistle (at, say .3 seconds), horn, I think you're expecting too much of the off-call officials to react quickly enough to see any time on the clock.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And in the situations where you have foul, whistle (at, say .3 seconds), horn, I think you're expecting too much of the off-call officials to react quickly enough to see any time on the clock.

Especially if you're working two person with only one scoreboard in the gym.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Especially if you're working two person with only one scoreboard in the gym.

True, but even with three of you and 5 clocks, with that little time on the clock, it's easy to miss. Especially on, say, a shot at the FT line.