end of game

[Zoochy]

Originally Posted by Tio

I respectfully disagree with this interpretation.

I am not administrating the free throw until the player vacates the marked lane spaces. By rule he is delaying the administration of a free throw - according to rule 10 in the NCAA manual.

So... you are going to allow B1 to linger before you administrate the Free Throw to A1. You are playing right into his hands. You are helping B1 'Ice' the shooter.
We got grilled from one of our observers because we did not administrate the Free Throw in an appropriate time frame. Once I informed B1 that if he did not move, then A1 was going to shoot the free throw until he made it. That got him to obey.
Unless the game clock was staring us in the face we were not going to be able to observe the time. Our lag time to turn our heads to see the clock would have been slower than the lag time of the game clock timekeeper.

[Tio]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

So... you are going to allow B1 to linger before you administrate the Free Throw to A1. You are playing right into his hands. You are helping B1 'Ice' the shooter.
We got grilled from one of our observers because we did not administrate the Free Throw in an appropriate time frame. Once I informed B1 that if he did not move, then A1 was going to shoot the free throw until he made it. That got him to obey.
Unless the game clock was staring us in the face we were not going to be able to observe the time. Our lag time to turn our heads to see the clock would have been slower than the lag time of the game clock timekeeper.

I am going to "ask" him to go where he belongs. If he refuses, I will proceed with the delay process. You chose a different way to get through this and I applaud your efforts. However, I don't believe the rules support administering a free throw with anyone in the lane when the ball is to become dead after the final shot. If the rules & actions support my call, I never have to worry about my decision.

With the clock, I would probably get rid of the lagtime term. This term was removed from the NFHS manual a couple of years ago. On every play, there is a 3rd official away who should be all over the clock. Things can get complicated if you are in an auxiliary gym with only one clock on the baseline. The way I read the OP was that the whistle clearly sounded before the expiration of time. If that is the case, the crew needs to be really good and know the remaining time. Especially true at the end of a close ballgame.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Not necessarily. If none of the officials see time on the clock after the whistle blows, there will be no time on the clock when the FTs are shot.

Again, I'm an official in other sports, but not basketball. I have to ask, though, how this is possible (assuming we're not in a running clock game).

Either the foul happened before the buzzer, thus leaving SOME time on the clock... or it didn't, thus there was no foul.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Again, I'm an official in other sports, but not basketball. I have to ask, though, how this is possible (assuming we're not in a running clock game).

Either the foul happened before the buzzer, thus leaving SOME time on the clock... or it didn't, thus there was no foul.

Human reaction time, to be blunt.

There's the reaction time of the person running the clock. Then there's the reaction time of the non-calling officials hearing the whistle then looking at the clock.

Even if we know there was a short time lag, if we don't see how much time to put back on the clock, by rule we can't guess.

Also, as has been pointed out, 99% of the time, there will be a lag between the actual foul and the whistle. The contact/foul could happen with a second remaining. The whistle could blow with .2 second remaining. The timer's reaction time takes .2 second, and so does the off-ball official's.

In NFHS, we don't get to use video replays for this.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Again, I'm an official in other sports, but not basketball. I have to ask, though, how this is possible (assuming we're not in a running clock game).

Either the foul happened before the buzzer, thus leaving SOME time on the clock... or it didn't, thus there was no foul.

In basketball, you're only allowed to put time back on the clock with definite knowledge. That includes either an official looking at the clock and seeing a specific time, or using an offiicial's count. We are not allowed to say, "Well, I know the whistle came before the horn, so let's put back up, say, .3 seconds." We have to see the .3 on the clock.

Another example would be ball is inbounded in the backcourt, A1 dribbles the ball towards the midcourt line, an official is visibly counting the 10 seconds, is up to 6, and notices the clock hasn't started. The official is allowed to blow the whistle, take 6 seconds off the clock, and put the ball back in play.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Another example would be ball is inbounded in the backcourt, A1 dribbles the ball towards the midcourt line, an official is visibly counting the 10 seconds, is up to 6, and notices the clock hasn't started. The official is allowed to blow the whistle, take 6 seconds off the clock, and put the ball back in play.

And the team gets a new "whole" ten seconds.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

A1 dribbles the ball towards the midcourt line.

Please call it the division line. The word midcourt line brings back memories of different, now extinct, rules to those of us who have been around the block a few times.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Again, I'm an official in other sports, but not basketball. I have to ask, though, how this is possible (assuming we're not in a running clock game).

Either the foul happened before the buzzer, thus leaving SOME time on the clock... or it didn't, thus there was no foul.

1) The ball can be live even after time has expired.

2) The timer's reaction to the whistle will be after the foul, so time can expire. If there's replay, then you can put the time back (NCAA). Without it, you can't.