Intentional or excessive intentional

[Raymond]

It's a great situation to pre-game so everyone is on the same sheet of music.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

It's a great situation to pre-game so everyone is on the same sheet of music.

How exactly do you pregame a hard foul obviously within the PCA of one official? Do you say, if I don't call it intentional go ahead and do so? Do you say, we are all going to come together after a hard foul and talk? JR certainly wouldn't be happy to pregame that.

I'm not sure that the pregame is the answer to this one.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

How exactly do you pregame a hard foul obviously within the PCA of one official? Do you say, if I don't call it intentional go ahead and do so? Do you say, we are all going to come together after a hard foul and talk? JR certainly wouldn't be happy to pregame that.

I'm not sure that the pregame is the answer to this one.

You can pregame going to each other if some info obviously needs to be shared. What you can't do is pregame that any other official can take over your call if he thinks you blew it, no matter what you thought. That's not only patently ridiculous but it's specifically not allowed rules-wise.

Once the calling official said that he was gonna stick with a normal shooting foul over the intentional, the conversation is over.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

How exactly do you pregame a hard foul obviously within the PCA of one official? Do you say, if I don't call it intentional go ahead and do so? Do you say, we are all going to come together after a hard foul and talk? JR certainly wouldn't be happy to pregame that.

I'm not sure that the pregame is the answer to this one.

Great question, here is an answer:
Blah blah bah, pregame, blah starters, blah, hair control device, blah, sock logo's.....How do you guys/gals want to handle hard fouls? Here are my thoughts. If we have a double whistle, and one of us thinks it should be a flagrant or intentional, then lets get together and exchange info and have the PCA official make the call. If you don't want to do that we can just have the PCA handle it on their own. What are you all most comfortable with?
Easy peezy, lemon cheezy

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

How exactly do you pregame a hard foul obviously within the PCA of one official? Do you say, if I don't call it intentional go ahead and do so? Do you say, we are all going to come together after a hard foul and talk? JR certainly wouldn't be happy to pregame that.

I'm not sure that the pregame is the answer to this one.

You pregame whether or not you would want the secondary official coming in with information or to just let the primary go with what he has. And you pre-game it using the exact same play you had from the championship game.

I have colleagues who want that info on the court, not in the lockerroom afterwards. I have others who want to live and die on their own in that situation.

Let's change your play and say B1 has purposely grabbed a handful of A1's jersey from the back with one hand while swatting at the ball and hacking A1 with the other. Do you MYOB?

That question is mostly rhetorical. My point is, you talk about plays like this, find out what your partners' philosophies are and have a general consensus on how you handle such situations instead of having the 'C' doing one thing and the 'T' something totally different.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

You pregame whether or not you would want the secondary official coming in with information or to just let the primary go with what he has. And you pre-game it using the exact same play you had from the championship game.

My difficultly with saying this is what "information" is the secondary official offering besides an opinion that he believes that contact was intentional/flagrant?
I had a good look at my partner and believed that he wasn't screened out and that he had a great view of the play. I don't believe that I could have offered him any information which he didn't already possess (save proper rules knowledge). All that I had was a different opinion and I don't think that it is my job to override his judgment on the court.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Let's change your play and say B1 has purposely grabbed a handful of A1's jersey from the back with one hand while swatting at the ball and hacking A1 with the other. Do you MYOB?

That would have very much altered my actions on the play. I would now have been believing that my partner did not observe this illegal action and that it would fall to me to actually call it. Not only would I have put a whistle on the play, but I would have likely gone straight to the X. I then would have done the courtesy of going to him and letting him know that I have an intentional jersey grab from behind which there was no way that he could possibly see, and then I would have been the one to take the call to the table. I wouldn't have been offering to let him take the call for something which he didn't/couldn't see. I don't believe that would put him in a good position if a coach asked for an explanation.

[Pete]

I appreciate all the info. The c following the play blew his whistle and he said hard foul. I said did he hit his head. He said no. I said just foul. After the game and when questioned. Neither one of us knew the NCAA M rule or signal. We learned and I have discussed this summer and had good understanding with my partners. In computer and will pregame always.