Technical or no Technical?

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by DLH17

You've officiated games with Col Jessup?

Better than LT Kendrick. That guy was a sneaky *******!

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by tomegun

First let me say

I was reading this post and stopped to read the PM from BNR that included a link that sent me right back here.

I don't have much to add that others, minus the two who want to explain the call, have said. One thing I will add it using space to stay out of trouble. Using information from the CIAA camp years ago, when I have to inform the coach that he has lost the privilege to stand in this situation I keep a reasonable amount of distance, inform him/her about the loss of the box and then they get to look at my backside. I will NOT literally or figuratively go right over there and give the coach a hug while I hear how bad of a person the big, bad official is for calling a T.

Did I say this? R I D I C U L O U S

Absolutely, keeping space is a good thing. If you get to close you could end up in a huddle with Bob Huggins and we have seen how THAT turns out!!! Plus, if you keep your distance and the coach continues to carry on his foolishness, then when you toss em, it looks cooler!

[dahoopref]

Originally Posted by Judtech

Absolutely, keeping space is a good thing. If you get to close you could end up in a huddle with Bob Huggins and we have seen how THAT turns out!!!

Yep, you're considered a referee who takes care of business and gets a Final Four assignment that same year. Kudos to Mike Stuart.

[Adam]

And now I'm the one coming across as warm-fuzzy.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And now I'm the one coming across as warm-fuzzy.

I'll bring the marshmellow's and graham crackers. Who will bring the hershey bars and guitar? "It only takes a spark, to get a fire going....." (Coom By Ya is too obvious!)

[Anchor]

If it is as you said, and I had been your partner, you would have likely got more guff from me if you hadn't called it than for calling it. You take the check, take care of bizness: that was bizness.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Judtech

I'll bring the marshmellow's and graham crackers. Who will bring the hershey bars and guitar? "It only takes a spark, to get a fire going....." (Coom By Ya is too obvious!)

Time for learning.

What does 'kumbaya' in the song "Kumbaya, my Lord" mean?

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Time for learning.

What does 'kumbaya' in the song "Kumbaya, my Lord" mean?

I always knew what it meant, just never knew how to spell it!!
So can we put you down for the guitar?

[Texas Aggie]

That is not the partner's business.

Huh? This isn't YOUR game; it is a game worked by all of you. You better make it your business.

For one that slows down the process of administration

We aren't talking about an investigative report with witnesses and a cross examination; this can be done very quickly. "The T was issued because he kicked the table after I called the foul. We're going to back everyone up, shoot the original foul shots and then the T. I'll go opposite and handle the throw-in. Anything else? Can you deal with the coach over here?"

I timed myself and that took all of about 12 second. I'd probably do it faster with the adrenaline going.

Even if it did take a bit longer, what's the harm? Rushing or looking rushed is much worse than being or acting deliberate. Again, we aren't talking about 10 minutes; maybe 30 seconds more at the most. You can't tell me that that will hurt anything.

it is unnecessary to my job.

Couldn't disagree more. You need to know what is going down in your game as far as what was said IF the calling official feels its important to let you know -- for example, if you are the R. You can always pregame and say, "hey, we aren't getting into a big discussion here -- just the brief highlights of what we need to know and let's move on." This is an area where we trust our partners to tell us what we need to know or ignore what we don't.

Can you give me an example of a call I make against a coach (T) that you don't need to know the particulars of?

Again, part of what I'm trying to do is to slow things down. When you are dealing with more than one foul on a play, especially with guys that worked a college game last night, it may take a few seconds to clarify how to proceed. Don't be afraid to take the time and the attitude of "I don't really need to know all that" makes me think you're more concerned about getting things done in a timely fashion than slowing the pace down to get everything right. My point is that this is a very dangerous way of thinking. I've seen and been in games that got royally screwed up because guys got in a big hurry. If my explanation slows all that down, it was indeed worth it.

Guys, I've done this sort of thing about 7-9 times over the last 3 years or so in hoops and probably a lot more in football (after a flag). In none of these situations did the game "stall." The risk of rushing and doing or saying something you will regret later far outweighs taking another 30-45 seconds.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Couldn't disagree more. You need to know what is going down in your game as far as what was said IF the calling official feels its important to let you know -- for example, if you are the R. You can always pregame and say, "hey, we aren't getting into a big discussion here -- just the brief highlights of what we need to know and let's move on." This is an area where we trust our partners to tell us what we need to know or ignore what we don't.

We will just have to disagree then. Because I have never said anything like that in a pre-game and personally do not care of the highlights during the game. Now it is very possible I know the reason, but if it were certain words, I do not need to know the specific words. I do not really care at that time. I might ask in the locker room or during a timeout, but not when we are trying to put the ball in play after we know what is going on. All I want to know is the type of T it is, so I know all the ramifications (e.g. book T compared to administrative T). I do not need to know why what a coach or player said to get popped at that moment.

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Can you give me an example of a call I make against a coach (T) that you don't need to know the particulars of?

Coach questions the integrity of me or my partners. The details are not important to me. Better yet, the coach is ranting and raving and jumping up and down does not need me to tell me why. In many cases it is obvious. In many cases if it is heard all over the court that I already know. But if for some reason the words are private and said under their breathe, I probably saw the issue coming. I do not need to at that point critique the T or the details. Maybe you do, just not my concern at that point.

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Again, part of what I'm trying to do is to slow things down. When you are dealing with more than one foul on a play, especially with guys that worked a college game last night, it may take a few seconds to clarify how to proceed. Don't be afraid to take the time and the attitude of "I don't really need to know all that" makes me think you're more concerned about getting things done in a timely fashion than slowing the pace down to get everything right. My point is that this is a very dangerous way of thinking. I've seen and been in games that got royally screwed up because guys got in a big hurry. If my explanation slows all that down, it was indeed worth it.

OK, I do the same thing but without the explanation. I just want to calm the calling official down (or me) and make sure we put the ball in the right places and have all the right people shooting. I do not need "why" to be voiced. And actually this is not something I need to know as people are around. Anything said at that time can be overheard and this can come back to hurt us. I just want to know the rulebook details and move on.

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Guys, I've done this sort of thing about 7-9 times over the last 3 years or so in hoops and probably a lot more in football (after a flag). In none of these situations did the game "stall." The risk of rushing and doing or saying something you will regret later far outweighs taking another 30-45 seconds.

OK. I work basketball games with the same guys for most of my games for the last 3 seasons. We have had Ts a few times in our games (not as high as your number) and not once did we discuss the issue on the floor. In one case I had no idea why my partner gave a T and I was standing closer to the coach. But he did something in a gesture and got popped. The coach wanted an explanation from me and I was not giving him one. I even told him "Coach I have no idea what you did, and right now it is not relevant." Oh I forgot to say that one of the cases the coach was ejected from the game for his second T. I did not need an explanation. I trust that officials with my career and he did what he felt was right. We talked about it after the game, not during and we were fine.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

We aren't talking about an investigative report with witnesses and a cross examination; this can be done very quickly. "The T was issued because he kicked the table after I called the foul. We're going to back everyone up, shoot the original foul shots and then the T. I'll go opposite and handle the throw-in. Anything else? Can you deal with the coach over here?"

Why? Don't you have the balls to explain your own call if an explanation is asked for? Maybe it's just me, but personally I couldn't look at myself in a mirror after a game if I ever said to one of my partners "Can you deal with the coach over there about the call that I just made?".

There's nothing the matter with giving a very quick explanation of a call to your partners if you feel they need one. There's a heckuva lot wrong though with refusing to give the exact same very quick explanation to the coach. That's absolutely terrible advice from both you and Judtech re: having your partner(s) explain your calls instead of you. The calling official knows why he/she made the call and should have the confidence to explain why that call was made if asked. You and Judtech are both making yourselves look weak as hell by using your partners to avoid a possible confrontation. It's the old, old story though. Some officials will spend more time explaining why they shouldn't have to take responsibility for their own calls rather than just manning up and take care of bidness.

If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. And if you won't do anything about the heat, stay away from the kitchen also.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

What does 'kumbaya' in the song "Kumbaya, my Lord" mean?

As one who went to high school in Beaufort, South Carolina, I'm glad you shared this. I wasn't aware of it actual origin.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

...
Again, part of what I'm trying to do is to slow things down. When you are dealing with more than one foul on a play, especially with guys that worked a college game last night, it may take a few seconds to clarify how to proceed. Don't be afraid to take the time and the attitude of "I don't really need to know all that" makes me think you're more concerned about getting things done in a timely fashion than slowing the pace down to get everything right. My point is that this is a very dangerous way of thinking. I've seen and been in games that got royally screwed up because guys got in a big hurry. If my explanation slows all that down, it was indeed worth it.
...

Crews I work on always get together before administering Techs, however, the discussion never addresses the specific offense. We are only concerned with the type of T, status of the ball at the time of the infraction, where to shoot the free throws, ensuring the table properly annotates the foul, and where to administer the throw-in.

Clarifying how to proceed has nothing to do with telling your partners "The coach ... so that's why I gave him a T"

[constable]

Originally Posted by Kingsman1288

I was working a spring tournament over this past weekend and had a discussion with my partner over a technical I issued to a coach. The situation goes like this...

Fairly close game with about 10 minutes or so left in the second half when a player from white drives to the basket in my primary and hits a layup. I'm L tableside and I observed some contact, but in my judgment not enough for a foul so play continues. As the other team inbounds the ball, white coach pops off the bench and starts yelling for an And 1. I don't acknowledge him at first as he is just offering comments, but as I run by he yells "Blow the whistle son, it's not that hard" WHACK! So we administer the technical foul and the whole time I'm administering them, the coach is telling my partner I need to have a thicker skin, etc. Partner doesn't ask me until after the game why I gave the T, and after explaining to him why, he suggests I need to have a longer leash with coaches.

My main issue is this. I'm 21 and have been officiating since I was 16 and am entering my 2nd season of a full Varsity schedule. However, based on my appearance you would never know it. I'm on the thin side and I have what you might politely call a "baby-face". As a result, coaches tend to target me as someone they think they can work over. This is an issue that I find many of my partners can't understand, and it's not their fault for not being able to. Because of this, I have developed a bit of a quick trigger finger with Ts. For comments like the one above, is a T warranted? Or would I be better off doing as my partner suggested and giving coaches a longer leash? Any thoughts/input are much appreciated.

Edit: In case it's not clear, the original T was for what I perceived to be the coach talking down to me and trying to intimidate me because of my age.

Good job. He earned it.

[Judtech]

JURRASIC; You may need to brush up on both your reading an anatomical skills. I never said I would NOT give the coach an explaination and I didn't read that in TEXAS' post either. IMO, it is more a logistical issue. On a T the calling official goes opposite table, on any other foul the calling official goes table side. This makes any explaination more difficult for the calling official on a T than on a "normal" foul. If a coach wants to wait until I rotate over to discuss it, again, if appropriate, I will be more than happy to do so.
Perhaps I am not paranoid enough. Since I won't throw my partner under a bus, I just operate under the premise they won't either. If I see one of my partners talking to a coach after any type of call, my first thought is not "That SOB, why is he talking to that coach. I just know they are talking about me" To me, the more a crew can show cohesion, the stronger they look. So, if trusting your partners to do the right thing, and trusting in your own skills to do the right thing, is being weak, then I guess I am ( Not weak as Hell though, because if you have EVER smelled burning sulfur UGHH)
As for having no balls, I find so much wrong with that statement. In light of the fact that you have never seen me naked or vice versa, do we really need to play "whose is bigger"? Besides, a good friend of mine who was a wrestler only had one, and he was a pretty strong/bad dude!!! (Although I do hear that when you get older they sag more!)