was that travelling?

[ABC Coach]

Forgive me...this might be elementary to all of you, but I'm just making sure I'm up to speed on this. Yesterday I was reffing and called a travel. I ended up having to eject the player because he wouldn't shut up about how bad my call was. Tell me if I kicked this or not.

He was heading towards the basket for a lay up. He gathered the ball for what would normally be a shot for goal. He took his two steps (I realize it's a pivot foot and one step...but you know what I mean) and then out of the corner of his eye, he saw a defending about to block the shot. The player then stopped, waited for the defender to fly by, and then shot the ball. I called a travel because a shot for goal didn't follow him taking those steps. Did I make the right call?

Forgive me if this unclear...this is the best I can do to explain what happened. Thanks for any advice.

[Jurassic Referee]

As long as the pivot foot never came back down, it was legal. From your description though, I'd be hard-pressed to believe that it didn't on this play. It's hard as hell...to the point of being almost impossible imo... to stop in mid-drive and balance yourself on a non-pivot foot. The usual scenario in a drive is jumping off the non-pivot foot and shooting before the pivot foot again lands. From your description, it sounds like the shooter let his pivot foot land to let the defender fly by.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by ABC Coach

I called a travel because a shot for goal didn't follow him taking those steps.

Contrary to popular belief, "a shot for goal following" does not keep anything from being traveling.

[Adam]

And even if you did kick it, players have to play. They don't get to critique the officials.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by ABC Coach

Forgive me...this might be elementary to all of you, but I'm just making sure I'm up to speed on this. Yesterday I was reffing and called a travel. I ended up having to eject the player because he wouldn't shut up about how bad my call was. Tell me if I kicked this or not.

He was heading towards the basket for a lay up. He gathered the ball for what would normally be a shot for goal. He took his two steps (I realize it's a pivot foot and one step...but you know what I mean) and then out of the corner of his eye, he saw a defending about to block the shot. The player then stopped, waited for the defender to fly by, and then shot the ball. I called a travel because a shot for goal didn't follow him taking those steps. Did I make the right call?

Forgive me if this unclear...this is the best I can do to explain what happened. Thanks for any advice.

It doesn't matter if u got it right or wrong from a player's behaviorial standpoint. I just want to know how you handled him? Did you try and ignore the player, talk to him, etc?

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And even if you did kick it, players have to play. They don't get to critique the officials.

I always tell players and coaches, "Question anything you like, as long as you're civil about it." A question is not necessarily a critique.

Having said that, ABC, I need some clarity from your play. You mentioned "a pivot foot and a step," but did that pivot foot leave the floor and return to the floor?

To paraphrase Jurassic a little, if the pivot foot left the floor and came back down, it's a travel, unless he jumped off that pivot foot and landed on both feet simultaneously ("jump stop"). Did any of this happen?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I always tell players and coaches, "Question anything you like, as long as you're civil about it." A question is not necessarily a critique.

And they'll question anything all night long. To paraphrase Jurassic a little , a better idea might be to say "if you have a specific question on the rules, feel free to ask it. I'll answer it when I get a chance."

The idea is right but you're a little too open-ended on it. You don't want to give them the idea that they can question anything and everything all game long.

Jmo.....

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The idea is right but you're a little too open-ended on it. You don't want to give them the idea that they can question anything and everything all game long.

On the contrary, I've been using that line during pre-games for a few years now, and I have fewer problems when using it.

The message isn't, "complain about anything you like." The message is, "I'm willing to listen, but you have to keep your cool." No-one has abused it yet.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

On the contrary, I've been using that line during pre-games for a few years now, and I have fewer problems when using it.

The message isn't, "complain about anything you like." The message is, "I'm willing to listen, but you have to keep your cool." No-one has abused it yet.

What else do you say in your pregames?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

What else do you say in your pregames?

We'll play the black line all around. Blue don't talk to white, white don't talk to blue. Keep the hands off, we'll be watching close for hand checks....

That's how I start anyway. I just keep going until the captains and coaches fall asleep and I can slip out of the gym unnoticed with my game check.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

We'll play the black line all around. Blue don't talk to white, white don't talk to blue. Keep the hands off, we'll be watching close for hand checks....

That's how I start anyway. I just keep going until the captains and coaches fall asleep and I can slip out of the gym unnoticed with my game check.

Smiley? Blue text? Give us somethin' here Rich...don't expect everyone to grasp your context.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Smiley? Blue text? Give us somethin' here Rich...

I think Rich is counting on all of us knowing he doesn't back pedal on the basketball court.

[ABC Coach]

According to all the posts I've read, I called the play correctly. The guy gathered the ball with his right foot down. He then stepped onto his left foot which would normally have been his plant for a jump towards the hoop. Then while the defensive player came flying by, the shooter pulled his right foot up to meet his left and just stood there while the defender passed.

Someone asked how I handled the guy...well, this guy was a jerk from the start. I had warned him early in the game to stop complaining. About 10 minutes after that, he flipped out over some call that didn't go his team's way and was in my face about it. I gave him a tech for that one. This whole traveling business happened about 2 quarters later...towards the end of the game. He was flaring his arms and shouting at me loud enough for the entire gym to clearly hear his nonsense. I couldn't let it slide, so I teched him again and that was it.

Gentlemen, bear in mind that for the past 15 years, this league has NEVER had a certified ref...for that matter I don't know if there's ever been an officially trained ref watching over these games. The players are used to complaining over the calls for 2 or 3 minutes every time they don't like what was called. It will take some time to undo that mentality.

Thanks for all the advice.

[Adam]

ABC, sounds like a good chance for a zero tolerance policy on complaints. How old are these players? It sounds like they're adults.

Start handing out Ts and it'll stop. Might start with a letter to all teams explaining the newly stepped up enforcement.

[Lotto]

Originally Posted by ABC Coach

According to all the posts I've read, I called the play correctly.

If I understand your narrative, you didn't quite call the play correctly, but you were close. Let me take your scenario, remove the parts that don't matter, and comment:

The guy gathered the ball with his right foot down. He then stepped onto his left foot ...

OK, so now the right foot is the pivot foot.

...the shooter pulled his right foot up

Still legal...the pivot foot is lifted.

to meet his left and just stood there

As soon as the right foot touches the court again, we have a travel.

while the defender passed.

And here's the small error---you don't wait for the defender to pass. This is a travel as soon as the right foot retouches the floor.