Duke/Baylor

[Texas Aggie]

The T call was a good call. The first Duke player (with the ball) was simply trying to get out of being physically harassed. The second player, was trying to get him out of there -- neither committed a foul of any kind. The Baylor thug (and I'm a Baylor supporter in general, but not of their basketball programs) came in and for no reason pushed the second Duke player who was holding the first.

I said immediately it was a T and wondered if they were going to call it. Had it been the first Baylor player (actually there were 2 guarding, so pick one) who was either trying to foul or trying to steal, assuming he was contacted unintentionally by the Duke player with the ball, that makes a simple, "get out of my space" subtle push, I *might* let that go. But I don't let a player out of the play come in and start trouble. THAT is how fights happen. Usually, the two guys tangled up quickly forgive and forget. There are exceptions, of course, but its almost always the 3rd or 4th guy coming in that escalate things, and that HAS to be penalized.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

The T call was a good call. The first Duke player (with the ball) was simply trying to get out of being physically harassed. The second player, was trying to get him out of there -- neither committed a foul of any kind. The Baylor thug (and I'm a Baylor supporter in general, but not of their basketball programs) came in and for no reason pushed the second Duke player who was holding the first.

I said immediately it was a T and wondered if they were going to call it. Had it been the first Baylor player (actually there were 2 guarding, so pick one) who was either trying to foul or trying to steal, assuming he was contacted unintentionally by the Duke player with the ball, that makes a simple, "get out of my space" subtle push, I *might* let that go. But I don't let a player out of the play come in and start trouble. THAT is how fights happen. Usually, the two guys tangled up quickly forgive and forget. There are exceptions, of course, but its almost always the 3rd or 4th guy coming in that escalate things, and that HAS to be penalized.

I agree with your assessment. I agree with Acy getting a T on the play. He absolutely came in and unnecessarily started trouble.
I only wonder if Thornley stepped on his partner's toes there as his partner was between Acy and Smith.

In the end it doesn't seem to matter as the right call was made, but I think that I would have consulted with my partner before pulling the trigger.

[doubleringer]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

.

I will say that I don't like him making the call of a T here when his partner is the one who jumps between Acy and Smith and has the best vantage point on the situation. I believe that he should have left the decision on how to handle it to him.

I thought that maybe his partner was a little too close to the action and didn't see everything develop. Sometimes in these types of situations, the official that isn't in the middle of things gets a better look at everything going on. I thought Thornley did the right thing in not getting into the middle of things and letting the other two officials break things up, watching the whole play, and then dealing with it. I think they got it right. Just my opinion of course.

The block/charge was a GREAT call, tough one at a tough time of the game. Thats why those guys are out there and I'm sitting at home watching.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by doubleringer

I thought that maybe his partner was a little too close to the action and didn't see everything develop.

Not possible.

If you watch the replay, his partner comes running in from afar. The action which warranted the T had already taken place when he arrived. He was simply preventing an escalation of the matter.

[doubleringer]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Not possible.

If you watch the replay, his partner comes running in from afar. The action which warranted the T had already taken place when he arrived. He was simply preventing an escalation of the matter.

Was he possibly focused on getting the players separated and didn't see the whole play? I just thought Thornley was sitting back, in a good position to see it all, and took care of business.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by doubleringer

Was he possibly focused on getting the players separated and didn't see the whole play? I just thought Thornley was sitting back, in a good position to see it all, and took care of business.

I thought that he ran over in response to the altercation, not prior to it.

If that is the case, then he would have likely observed the action from an even better angle than Thornley, but as I said already, in the end, the right call was made.

[Camron Rust]

The charge...while I agree with the call, it was not consistent with a how they've been called in many of the games I've watched. I've seen call after call go to a block when the defender had better position.

The T...no question. Correct call.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The charge...while I agree with the call, it was not consistent with a how they've been called in many of the games I've watched. I've seen call after call go to a block when the defender had better position.

You mean like the 2 blocks called on Prince from Tennessee within 3 seconds yesterday? The second one, especially, I thought would've been a strong PC foul.

[David M]

Am I wrong or should a Duke player (Thomas, I think) been called for basket interference? Instead the two points were counted and a defensive foul called resulting in a 3 point play.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by David M

Am I wrong or should a Duke player (Thomas, I think) been called for basket interference? Instead the two points were counted and a defensive foul called resulting in a 3 point play.

This came up for discussion in the chat room during the game.......

Some said, "by rule"...... others said, "but in this situation, no way you call it".......

[Pantherdreams]

Lots of great stuff.

I do agree with the T on Acy for the reasons stated, I just have trouble believing that if a player comes from afar to defend a teammate (however misguided and inappropriate) and a scrum ensues with people jawing and bumping, that there is nothing else T worthy going on. If you are going to penalize one participant who reacted badly to the situation at point then you need to penalize anyone who did or said something.

The guys in the original huddle around the ball I'm ok with they just had some trouble breaking up and in a normal circumstance a quick discussion with them would be fine. However extra guy in pushing whack, every extra guy after that pushing or talking trash particularly any cursing really has to be called so that everyone gets the message. IMO

Him bumping and then getting bumped back as guys step in and start barking and talking (granted the official got between before a real shove or push back coudl happen, he got sandwiched when the Duke player stepped forward) needs to be dealt with or your basically calling the equivalent of an insitgator penalty in hockey and breaking everyone else up.

If the Baylor kid bumps and the Duke player goes down and everyone is indignant and seperating them fine. Form my vantage point (The TV it lookd like the Duke kid is going back into say some things and get his lick in when the ref stops the physical interaction. More jawing continues. I can't here what being said so maybe its not provacative in nature or cursing. Since i wasn't there I can't tell I just find it hard to believe the only thing T worthy occuring in that scrum was the first push.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

The T call was a good call. The first Duke player (with the ball) was simply trying to get out of being physically harassed. The second player, was trying to get him out of there -- neither committed a foul of any kind. The Baylor thug (and I'm a Baylor supporter in general, but not of their basketball programs) came in and for no reason pushed the second Duke player who was holding the first.

I said immediately it was a T and wondered if they were going to call it. Had it been the first Baylor player (actually there were 2 guarding, so pick one) who was either trying to foul or trying to steal, assuming he was contacted unintentionally by the Duke player with the ball, that makes a simple, "get out of my space" subtle push, I *might* let that go. But I don't let a player out of the play come in and start trouble. THAT is how fights happen. Usually, the two guys tangled up quickly forgive and forget. There are exceptions, of course, but its almost always the 3rd or 4th guy coming in that escalate things, and that HAS to be penalized.

Why is the baylor player a 'thug'?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

If the Baylor kid bumps and the Duke player goes down and everyone is indignant and seperating them fine. Form my vantage point (The TV it lookd like the Duke kid is going back into say some things and get his lick in when the ref stops the physical interaction. More jawing continues. I can't here what being said so maybe its not provacative in nature or cursing. Since i wasn't there I can't tell I just find it hard to believe the only thing T worthy occuring in that scrum was the first push.

I'm not having that hard a time believing it; I'll assume without evidence to the contrary that the officials called the Ts that needed called. They got the instigator, and no one else did anything that jumped out and begged for a T. We often talk about how it's unfair to penalize two guys equally when one obviously started the mess. I like how they dealt with it.

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

Couple things...

The charge/block - I thought Zuback was JUST there, so good call.

Looks like Scott Thornley came in with a T on Quincy Acy in that scrum with about a minute left. Thoughts?

I say charge on the that play, because he had position and Double T on the scrum.

[Drizzle]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Why is the baylor player a 'thug'?

Because Texas A&M versus Baylor is a pretty heated rivalry, there's no love lost between those two teams and especially their fans.