When does travel occur?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Players are smart, and this is one rule they tend to know.

Do they? What is the rule? Isn't that what we are debating now?

If it's really a dribble, he'll show you by continuing the dribble. If it's a pass, he'll show you by purposefully avoiding the ball; likely boxing out his opponent at the same time to give a teammate time to get to the pass.

In my opinion, the "passer" purposely avoiding the ball etc. is not what makes it a pass.

Let me change the play slightly.

A1 goes airborne for a shot, realizing it's about to get eaten by a young Dikembe, he throws the ball towards and empty corner of the court. He then proceeds to follow it, where for a few seconds, he's the only player in reach of the ball. You calling the violation if he doesn't touch it?

In this case, no. Throwing the ball toward an empty corner of the court bears no resemblance to the player simply dropping the ball to the floor.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Do they? What is the rule? Isn't that what we are debating now?

The rule is the player can't start a dribble after jumping; players know this or they'd attempt it more. I can't remember any players actually attempting to start a dribble after jumping; not that it hasn't happened, just that to say it's rare is to overstate its frequency.

Originally Posted by just another ref

In my opinion, the "passer" purposely avoiding the ball etc. is not what makes it a pass.

Why not? We have to base it on something, and this meets the common sense test.

Originally Posted by just another ref

In this case, no. Throwing the ball toward an empty corner of the court bears no resemblance to the player simply dropping the ball to the floor.

How is it different? In both plays, you have a player purposefully putting the ball where only he has the ability to touch it first and no teammate is in the immediate vicinity. How is it different?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

A1 goes airborne for a shot, realizing it's about to get eaten by a young Dikembe, he throws the ball towards and empty corner of the court. He then proceeds to follow it, where for a few seconds, he's the only player in reach of the ball. You calling the violation if he doesn't touch it?

Originally Posted by just another ref

In this case, no. Throwing the ball toward an empty corner of the court bears no resemblance to the player simply dropping the ball to the floor.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

How is it different? In both plays, you have a player purposefully putting the ball where only he has the ability to touch it first and no teammate is in the immediate vicinity. How is it different?

The NFHS deems that the player "began a dribble by throwing the ball to the floor." The FED refers to the point when the player who threw the ball grabs it again as the end of the dribble, and clearly notes in the ruling that the player could also have "continued the dribble" "upon reaching the ball." So touching it again would be continuing the dribble, not starting it.
Here's the play ruling:

2003-04 NFHS BASKETBALL RULES INTERPRETATIONS

SITUATION 6: A1 jumps from the floor and secures a defensive re-bound. A1 then pivots toward the sideline where a teammate, A2, is standing for an outlet pass. Just as A1 releases the pass, A2 turns and runs down the court. A1 throws a soft bounce pass to where A2 was standing. A1 then moves and secures the ball without dribbling. RULING: Legal action. A1 had the pivot foot on the floor and began a dribble by throwing the ball to the floor (the bounce pass); the dribble ended when A1 secured the ball. Upon reaching the ball, A1 also could have continued the dribble. (4-15-3,4)

[Adam]

So, Nevada, how would you call this play? Throwing the ball to the floor is obviously not a dribble all the time, so how do you make the determination? By what it looks like? Waiting to see who touches the ball next?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

So, Nevada, how would you call this play? Throwing the ball to the floor is obviously not a dribble all the time, so how do you make the determination? By what it looks like? Waiting to see who touches the ball next?

By using my hard-earned and well-seasoned judgment.