When does travel occur?

[canuckrefguy]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Request time-out?

Smart a$$ We use FIBA, so no lame bailouts by calling time out.

Originally Posted by Jay R

He did neither. He simply dropped the ball at his feet with no teammate in the vicinity.

Let's change the scenario a tiny bit.

Your guy does the same thing, but instead of "dropping" the ball and re-gaining possession, he forces the ball down, aka starts a dribble.

Violation? Yup - for moving pivot foot before dribbling.

The two plays are the same.

[Jay R]

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

Smart a$$ We use FIBA, so no lame bailouts by calling time out.



Let's change the scenario a tiny bit.

Your guy does the same thing, but instead of "dropping" the ball, he forces the ball down, aka starts a dribble.

Violation? Yup - for moving pivot foot before dribbling.

The two plays are the same.

So you're going with the travel right away. That's how I called it today in a game but then I wasn't sure if it was right.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

That's true, but what I think the others were pointing out was the black/white nature of the language being used, and the idea that waiting to see the whole play is desirable.

I think we all know the play Jay had - and that he got it right.

Actually, based on this post from Jay, I'm not sure.

Originally Posted by Jay R

So you're going with the travel right away. That's how I called it today in a game but then I wasn't sure if it was right.

If he called the violation before A1 retouched the ball, I don't think he got it right. Will it matter in the game? Probably not 99% of the time, but in plays like jar brings up just above this post, it would matter and I think jar would get it wrong.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

Let's change the scenario a tiny bit.

Your guy does the same thing, but instead of "dropping" the ball, he forces the ball down, aka starts a dribble.

Violation? Yup - for moving pivot foot before dribbling.

The two plays are the same.

Bounce passes often look identical to a dribble, and sometimes the only way to tell is to wait and see what happens next. "See the whole play" applies here.

[canuckrefguy]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Bounce passes often look identical to a dribble, and sometimes the only way to tell is to wait and see what happens next. "See the whole play" applies here.

Yeah for sure, I was talking specifically about the obvious play where we know it is not a pass. I think Jay was referring to that as well.

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

Smart a$$ We use FIBA, so no lame bailouts by calling time out.

Let's change the scenario a tiny bit.

Your guy does the same thing, but instead of "dropping" the ball and re-gaining possession, he forces the ball down, aka starts a dribble.

Violation? Yup - for moving pivot foot before dribbling.

The two plays are the same.

From FIBA official rules 2008:

24.1.1 A dribble starts when a player, having gained control of a live ball on the playing court, throws, taps, rolls, dribbles it on the floor or deliberately throws it against the backboard and touches it again before it touches another player.

The OP's case is not a violation until the offensive player touches again the ball (FIBA rules). The start of the dribble is when the ball leaves the player's hands, but a travel or an illegal dribble cannot be called until the player touches again the ball.

Ciao

[Adam]

Originally Posted by eg-italy

From FIBA official rules 2008:

The OP's case is not a violation until the offensive player touches again the ball (FIBA rules). The start of the dribble is when the ball leaves the player's hands, but a travel or an illegal dribble cannot be called until the player touches again the ball.

Ciao

That pretty well sums it up for the OP, then, since it was a FIBA game. I'd like to see the Fed clean up the rule to make it clear like this.