Which is the erroneous free throw?

[Back In The Saddle]

Nearly had an unusual correctable error situation in a game tonight, and it got me thinking about how to correct it.

A1 is fouled on a shot, basket goes. Before administering the free throw, B1 is assessed a T. A1 is designated to shoot the T free throws as well. While I'm answering B2's question about the shooting foul, my partner erroneously awards two free throws for the foul. As we're about the administer the fourth free throw the potential mistake is brought to our attention.

What if we had shot the fourth free throw? To make it more interesting, what if the shooter had made the first two free throws, and missed the second two? That becomes important when you consider how to correct the error. In particular, was the second free throw the erroneously awarded one? Or was the fourth one the culprit? So would we take a point off the board or not?

[Adam]

which rule set?

[Back In The Saddle]

Nfhs

[Adam]

Then I'd say your 2nd free throw was the erroneous one; although I'd likely allow the coach to keep all three and simply not give the last free throw.

If you give him all 4, and he make the first two and misses the 2nd two, they lose a point, IMO. This one would suck, IMO.

[just another ref]

Don't you guys indicate T when you start to shoot the free throws for the T in this situation, making sure who the shooter is to be? This would make it obvious that the second free throw was the unmerited one.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Don't you guys indicate T when you start to shoot the free throws for the T in this situation, making sure who the shooter is to be? This would make it obvious that the second free throw was the unmerited one.

No, but I do indicate "one" or "two" or "three" to the shooter for the PF shots. Then, I'll verify the shooter for the TF shots; this is done very imformally. If the same player shoots, then I think the pause was sufficient to ensure it's the desired shooter. the pause also differentiates between the shots.

All that said, I'm assuming for the sake of discussion that these steps weren't taken.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by snaqwells

then i'd say your 2nd free throw was the erroneous one; although i'd likely allow the coach to keep all three and simply not give the last free throw.

If you give him all 4, and he make the first two and misses the 2nd two, they lose a point, imo. This one would suck, imo.

+1

[FrankHtown]

I was under the impression that as long as the clock had not started, even though the ball became live when handed to the shooter, any CE can be corrected at that point. I would think the second free throw for the original foul was unmerited, and if made, should be taken off the score. The Technical fouls should have no bearing at all.

[NCAAREF]

Let's make it a little more interesting...if the criteria for a correctable error is Live-Dead-Live....then when the ball is given to the free thrower for the first FT it is live...once the FT is over it is dead...when handed to him for the second the ball is again live.....now what?

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Then I'd say your 2nd free throw was the erroneous one; although I'd likely allow the coach to keep all three and simply not give the last free throw.

If you give him all 4, and he make the first two and misses the 2nd two, they lose a point, IMO. This one would suck, IMO.

I agree. Had there been a different shooter for the T free throws, it would have been really obvious which was the erroneous free throw. That the same shooter shot both sets of free throws doesn't change that. So if we had shot the fourth, we would have had to wipe off the second to correct the error.

Ultimately we awarded the correct total number of free throws, and the right player shot each at the correct basket. Any argument that we still committed a CE (and the only such argument may be coming from one of the voices in my own head) is rooted in the premise that the details of administering official's mental bookkeeping, which columns he records each free throw under, matter more than the bottom line. However, the weight his mental accounting carries probably increases directly in proportion to how widely he communicated the details. IOW, if everybody in the building heard him tell the shooter that he had two free throws for the first foul, then the bottom line argument becomes less compelling.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by NCAAREF

Let's make it a little more interesting...if the criteria for a correctable error is Live-Dead-Live....then when the ball is given to the free thrower for the first FT it is live...once the FT is over it is dead...when handed to him for the second the ball is again live.....now what?

Since the criteria also includes the clock properly starting before the Live-Dead-Live scenario, it wouldn't matter.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by NCAAREF

Let's make it a little more interesting...if the criteria for a correctable error is Live-Dead-Live....then when the ball is given to the free thrower for the first FT it is live...once the FT is over it is dead...when handed to him for the second the ball is again live.....now what?

But, that is NOT the criteria for a correctable error...the first live ball must also coincide with the clock running...and that doesn't occur during a FT.