Xavier vs Kansas State

[Stillblind]

18:09 remaining in 1st. Xavier brings the ball across midcourt and makes pass parallel to midcourt line. K-State deflects the cross court pass, hitting the ball down (ball strikes front court and heads toward Xaviers back court). Xavier is first to touch the ball approximately 7' into there backcourt. The ball didn't touch the backcourt prior to the touch.
Clearly a backcourt according to NFHS. I made this call numerous times this year, even though 75% of the fans, 50% of the coaches and usually 33% of the refs on the floor disagreed with me. I am now convinced that this is the number 1 missed call in all of basketball. (Isn't the NCAA rule the same as NFHS?)

[APG]

Originally Posted by Stillblind

18:09 remaining in 1st. Xavier brings the ball across midcourt and makes pass parallel to midcourt line. K-State deflects the cross court pass, hitting the ball down (ball strikes front court and heads toward Xaviers back court). Xavier is first to touch the ball approximately 7' into there backcourt. The ball didn't touch the backcourt prior to the touch.
Clearly a backcourt according to NFHS. I made this call numerous times this year, even though 75% of the fans, 50% of the coaches and usually 33% of the refs on the floor disagreed with me. I am now convinced that this is the number 1 missed call in all of basketball. (Isn't the NCAA rule the same as NFHS?)

I'm not sure if that meets the requirements for a backcourt. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. And I know NFHS issued that one interpretation on a backcourt play that many feel does not follow stated rule.

1. Team control-check there was team control
2. Ball had frontcourt status-check
3. Offense was last to touch the ball in the frontcourt-Kansas State was last to touch the ball in the frontcourt
4. Offense is first to touch the ball after the ball achieved a backcourt status

I do agree that last to touch-first to touch backcourt violation is a call that too many officials do not understand and forget about players/coaches understanding it.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

I love having a DVR.

Just went back and reviewed the play in question. It appeared that the Kansas State player knocked the ball towards the backcourt. As the ball went into the backcourt, the Xavier player reached for and missed the ball while it was still in the air, the ball then bounced in the backcourt, and then the Xavier player recovered it in the backcourt.

Based on that, I think it was a correct no-call.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I love having a DVR.

Just went back and reviewed the play in question. It appeared that the Kansas State player knocked the ball towards the backcourt. As the ball went into the backcourt, the Xavier player reached for and missed the ball while it was still in the air, the ball then bounced in the backcourt, and then the Xavier player recovered it in the backcourt.

Based on that, I think it was a correct no-call.

DVR=win

I too went back and saw the play. The Xavier player was awfully to touching it in the backcourt but I agree with a good no call.

[Rich]

The "gotcha" aspects of some of the more weird backcourt violations is the one rule change I would put through. I would eliminate all these violations, including the one where B knocked the ball off A into the backcourt.

[APG]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

The "gotcha" aspects of some of the more weird backcourt violations is the one rule change I would put through. I would eliminate all these violations, including the one where B knocked the ball off A into the backcourt.

How specifically would you word the rule compared to what it is right now?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

I'm not sure if that meets the requirements for a backcourt. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. And I know NFHS issued that one interpretation on a backcourt play that many feel does not follow stated rule.

1. Team control-check there was team control
2. Ball had frontcourt status-check
3. Offense was last to touch the ball in the frontcourt-Kansas State was last to touch the ball in the frontcourt
4. Offense is first to touch the ball after the ball achieved a backcourt status

I do agree that last to touch-first to touch backcourt violation is a call that too many officials do not understand and forget about players/coaches understanding it.

You've almost got the wording right and you are right that this is a not a backcourt violation. Your numbers 3 and 4 should use the term "Team in team control" instead of "offense". Xavier was the team in team control but KState was last to touch the ball in frontcourt as you stated. If any one of the four elements are missing, there is no violation. In the OP, element 3 was missing. The team that was not in team control (KState) was last to touch in the frontcourt. This is the same point you make but I just wanted to clarify the wording.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Stillblind

18:09 remaining in 1st. Xavier brings the ball across midcourt and makes pass parallel to midcourt line. K-State deflects the cross court pass, hitting the ball down (ball strikes front court and heads toward Xaviers back court). Xavier is first to touch the ball approximately 7' into there backcourt. The ball didn't touch the backcourt prior to the touch.
Clearly a backcourt according to NFHS. I made this call numerous times this year, even though 75% of the fans, 50% of the coaches and usually 33% of the refs on the floor disagreed with me. I am now convinced that this is the number 1 missed call in all of basketball. (Isn't the NCAA rule the same as NFHS?)

Unless I am missing the description what you describe is not a violation. According to you, K-State caused the ball to go into the back court. It is perfectly legal for the team in control of the ball to go back and get that. Now if Xavier touched the ball before the ball went into the back court, then you are correct that is a violation.

BTW, the rules are the same for NF and NCAA. At least they are by the written rule.

Peace

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Stillblind

18:09 remaining in 1st. Xavier brings the ball across midcourt and makes pass parallel to midcourt line. K-State deflects the cross court pass, hitting the ball down (ball strikes front court and heads toward Xaviers back court). Xavier is first to touch the ball approximately 7' into there backcourt. The ball didn't touch the backcourt prior to the touch.
Clearly a backcourt according to NFHS. I made this call numerous times this year, even though 75% of the fans, 50% of the coaches and usually 33% of the refs on the floor disagreed with me. I am now convinced that this is the number 1 missed call in all of basketball. (Isn't the NCAA rule the same as NFHS?)

First, welcome to the forum. Second, please explain why you think this is a violation. Please see the posts above.

BTW - the number 1 missed call in all of basketball is whatever call allows a game to go into overtime.

[Stillblind]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

First, welcome to the forum. Second, please explain why you think this is a violation. Please see the posts above.

BTW - the number 1 missed call in all of basketball is whatever call allows a game to go into overtime.

Mark, I can't disagree with DVR, but I saw it as I described. So for sake of argument lets go with my scenario. I believe it was exactly like the 2 or 3 year old NFHS Interpretation. K-State deflected toward the back court. The ball was in the air over the back court, but that still equals front court status. Once Xavier touced the ball, Xavier caused it to go backcourt. Had the ball bounced first in the BC then I say play on.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Stillblind

Mark, I can't disagree with DVR, but I saw it as I described. So for sake of argument lets go with my scenario. I believe it was exactly like the 2 or 3 year old NFHS Interpretation. K-State deflected toward the back court. The ball was in the air over the back court, but that still equals front court status. Once Xavier touced the ball, Xavier caused it to go backcourt. Had the ball bounced first in the BC then I say play on.

If it was exactly like the interpretation, it was not a violation. The interpretation was/is bogus.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If it was exactly like the interpretation, it was not a violation. The interpretation was/is bogus.

Agreed. This is one I'm more than happy to ignore. And I'll be the only one in the building that knows that I know that I'm passing on a "violation." I can live with that.

Like I said upthread, they could fix this (the gotcha violations, that IMO don't fit the spirit of the rule) with some effort.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Stillblind

Mark, I can't disagree with DVR, but I saw it as I described. So for sake of argument lets go with my scenario. I believe it was exactly like the 2 or 3 year old NFHS Interpretation. K-State deflected toward the back court. The ball was in the air over the back court, but that still equals front court status. Once Xavier touced the ball, Xavier caused it to go backcourt. Had the ball bounced first in the BC then I say play on.

Originally Posted by just another ref

If it was exactly like the interpretation, it was not a violation. The interpretation was/is bogus.

In some people's opinion.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

In some people's opinion.

Apparently you are not in this group? Explain how the interp can be justified.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Stillblind

18:09 remaining in 1st. Xavier brings the ball across midcourt and makes pass parallel to midcourt line. K-State deflects the cross court pass, hitting the ball down (ball strikes front court and heads toward Xaviers back court). Xavier is first to touch the ball approximately 7' into there backcourt. The ball didn't touch the backcourt prior to the touch.
Clearly a backcourt according to NFHS. I made this call numerous times this year, even though 75% of the fans, 50% of the coaches and usually 33% of the refs on the floor disagreed with me. I am now convinced that this is the number 1 missed call in all of basketball. (Isn't the NCAA rule the same as NFHS?)

By "rule," this is not a violation as Team A was not the last to touch the ball before it went into the backcourt.

Based on an old NFHS interp that was deleted without comment (I think), it is a violation.

I can't even say I've "seen" this play numerous times in my career, but I certainly haven't (nor will I) make this call. If they change the wording of the rule to make it a violation, I'll call it.