Iowa State-Kansas

TriggerMN · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 23, 2004, 11:12pm

This weekend Kansas beat Iowa State 90-89 in overtime. In the first half, this situation occurred. Did the officials interpret the rule correctly?

Iowa State's Jared Homan went to the line for two shots. After missing the first, Kansas rebounded, went down the floor, and J.R. Giddens made a 3-pointer. At this point, the officials realized they hadn't awarded the 2nd free throw to Homan. They counted the Kansas 3-pointer, cleared the lane, and gave ISU's Homan his 2nd free throw. Then they gave ISU an OOB throw-in (I'm not sure where the throw-in occurred.)

While he has said he realizes this one situation did not decide the game, Iowa State's coach wants an "investigation." Do NCAA rules back up the officials in this instance?

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 23, 2004, 11:30pm

Quote:

Originally posted by TriggerMN
This weekend Kansas beat Iowa State 90-89 in overtime. In the first half, this situation occurred. Did the officials interpret the rule correctly?

Iowa State's Jared Homan went to the line for two shots. After missing the first, Kansas rebounded, went down the floor, and J.R. Giddens made a 3-pointer. At this point, the officials realized they hadn't awarded the 2nd free throw to Homan. They counted the Kansas 3-pointer, cleared the lane, and gave ISU's Homan his 2nd free throw. Then they gave ISU an OOB throw-in (I'm not sure where the throw-in occurred.)

While he has said he realizes this one situation did not decide the game, Iowa State's coach wants an "investigation." Do NCAA rules back up the officials in this instance?

Yes, the officials handled the correctable error situation correctly. The ISU coach is just running his mouth about nothing.

And no for the disclaimer: My mom is a KU graduate. ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK, KUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BktBallRef · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 23, 2004, 11:38pm

Quote:

Originally posted by TriggerMN
This weekend Kansas beat Iowa State 90-89 in overtime. In the first half, this situation occurred. Did the officials interpret the rule correctly?

Iowa State's Jared Homan went to the line for two shots. After missing the first, Kansas rebounded, went down the floor, and J.R. Giddens made a 3-pointer. At this point, the officials realized they hadn't awarded the 2nd free throw to Homan. They counted the Kansas 3-pointer, cleared the lane, and gave ISU's Homan his 2nd free throw. Then they gave ISU an OOB throw-in (I'm not sure where the throw-in occurred.)

While he has said he realizes this one situation did not decide the game, Iowa State's coach wants an "investigation." Do NCAA rules back up the officials in this instance?

Yes, and the ruling would also be correct for NFHS. It's a correctable error for failing to award a merited FT.

Nevadaref · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 24, 2004, 06:26am

FYI, the throw-in for ISU should have been from anywhere along the end line. I'm sure it was, too.
Pretty embarrassing, though. Three-man, D-I crew and not a single official kept track of how many FTs had been attempted. Someone should have hit a whistle. Oh well, we all do the best we can.

TigerBball · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 24, 2004, 07:28am

I can understand the ISU coaches dismay at the play. His players were not ready to play D. KU basically got a free bucket. Why shouldn't the coach be upset, even if it was done by the book.

Danvrapp · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 24, 2004, 09:01am

The aricle also goes on to say:

The play was a major topic on a Monday morning radio talk show. One caller wondered what would have happened if an Iowa State player had tipped in Homan's miss. Would the officials have counted that basket and then awarded Homan his second free throw?

I think in this situation, you just play dumb and say "Hey guys - hold on! We've got one more shot here!" I can imagine the defense standing around waiting for a second shot while the offense gets an easy rebound and lay-in. I think a trip down the length of the floor is a little different.

Just an additional thought...

TigerBball · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 24, 2004, 09:29am

Now I did not see the play, so I do not know if ISU got back to play D, but even a split second of standing would give enough of an advantage to KU that it should be considered an unfair advantage.

Adam · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 24, 2004, 04:39pm

I didn't see it either, but it's been all over the radio and newspapers here.
http://desmoinesregister.com/sports/.../23617092.html

It's almost a given that the officials cost the cyclones the game, although the questions are on judgment calls. I note there is one case where a 3 point basket was granted when replays (apparently) show it was a two. However, coaches did not ask the officials to check the replay.

There seems to be some dispute as to whether the officials could have wiped away the 3 point shot during the free throw error. The article intimates that the points could have been wiped had the ISU players not initiated the throw in following the hoop. My understanding is that the basket has to count at that point. Can someone familiar with NCAA rules tell me what the rule is here?

Perhaps the administering officials told the players 1 & 1, but the ISU players were going off of the calling official's statement? I'm guessing here.

BTW, this is post # 500 for me. Not exactly a "ig dog" but it does let me know just how little else I've accomplished over the past year.

[Edited by Snaqwells on Feb 24th, 2004 at 03:46 PM]

bob jenkins · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 25, 2004, 08:42am

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells

Can someone familiar with NCAA rules tell me what the rule is here?

As I read the description in the first post of this thread, the officials handled it correctly.

TigerBball · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 25, 2004, 08:46am

Can / Should the scoreboard operator hit the buzzer in a case like this to get the refs attention, even during the play?

bob jenkins · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 25, 2004, 09:52am

Quote:

Originally posted by TigerBball
Can / Should the scoreboard operator hit the buzzer in a case like this to get the refs attention, even during the play?

Can? Yes.

Should? No.

Junker · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 25, 2004, 01:13pm

I'm a Cyclone fan in Iowa and I've had to turn off sports radio for the week. Every show is bashing those officials left and right. They handled the corrrectable error correctly. That's about all you can do in that situation. The Iowa State players quit on the play, rather than play until they hear a whistle. It was an ugly error to let KU get the ball down court and shoot, but the officials had indicated 2 shots before the first free throw and they must have just "lost their place" for a second. Like all of us, the're human and occasionaly will make a mistake. I'm going to the Cyclone game tonight. It'll be interesting to see how the fans react to tonight's crew.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 25, 2004, 03:10pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Quote:

Originally posted by TigerBball
Can / Should the scoreboard operator hit the buzzer in a case like this to get the refs attention, even during the play?

Can? Yes.

Should? No.

Can? Maybe.

In the ISU/KU game, I would say no. But if the official, after reporting the foul asked the Scorer if we were in the one-and-one or two-shoot bonus, and the Scorer says: one-and-one, and then discovers that it should have been a two-shoot bonus, I would say yes, the Scorer should signal the officials.

MTD, Sr.