School alleges discrimination by Philly refs

[boss21]

Since Mrs. Joyner wasn't at the game she really can only go on hearsay.
But in all fairness why is it that during the state finals there is never enough officals from the Philly area, maybe sometimes a familar face would prevent some of theese allegations. You mena to tell me there are no refs from Dist 12 that qualify to do these games..........

[boss21]

Philly teams from the Public League always get officals they've never seen before, thats no problem, but there has to be some officals from the Public League that qualify to do these state games?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

Refs should try to be neutral but at any level bad mouthing them and not playing the game right will result in more calls going against the team.

Does that include other officials bad-mouthing them from the stands?

so much fun...and nightmare

Just wondering.....

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Do you ref?

Sad, ain't it?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by boss21

Philly teams from the Public League always get officals they've never seen before, thats no problem, but there has to be some officals from the Public League that qualify to do these state games?

Sure, but why would they be scheduled to work a game where one team was from the league they work? The state likely sends them out somewhere else (and probably should).

Now, if the crew had never worked this caliber of ball that would be another story.

A few years ago, there was a coach in the area here from one of the big schools in the city that got a crew of rural-area officials that probably didn't work a Division 1 game all season. Those officials called a very different game (pretty much any contact was a foul) and the city team ended up losing the game. The coach blasted the officiating afterwards in the press and, while I would never condone a coach doing so, I could understand some of the points he was making about how the officials get assigned to games. Let's face it - if you've never worked a team from a city conference where there's above-the-rim, physical play with D1 prospects on many of the teams in the conference, you aren't ready to learn how to do it in a state playoff game.

Maybe if this person in the article wasn't so quick to scream "racism" issues like this would've come out in this story and there would be something for the PIAA to actually look at and see if there was something to improve in the assigning process. Instead, they come off as whiny crybabies who don't like that they got thumped in a game against a very good team.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Does that include other officials bad-mouthing them from the stands?

so much fun...and nightmare

Just wondering.....

Wow. And he still doesn't get it. Explains a lot of his posts on the tourney as well.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Sure, but why would they be scheduled to work a game where one team was from the league they work? The state likely sends them out somewhere else (and probably should).

Now, if the crew had never worked this caliber of ball that would be another story.

A few years ago, there was a coach in the area here from one of the big schools in the city that got a crew of rural-area officials that probably didn't work a Division 1 game all season. Those officials called a very different game (pretty much any contact was a foul) and the city team ended up losing the game. The coach blasted the officiating afterwards in the press and, while I would never condone a coach doing so, I could understand some of the points he was making about how the officials get assigned to games. Let's face it - if you've never worked a team from a city conference where there's above-the-rim, physical play with D1 prospects on many of the teams in the conference, you aren't ready to learn how to do it in a state playoff game.

Maybe if this person in the article wasn't so quick to scream "racism" issues like this would've come out in this story and there would be something for the PIAA to actually look at and see if there was something to improve in the assigning process. Instead, they come off as whiny crybabies who don't like that they got thumped in a game against a very good team.

Good points regarding style of play. Years ago, my high school girls team was in the semifinals for state in Illinois. They were from the Chicago area in a tough physical conference. They played a downstate team. The officials that night were all downstate, rural officials. Good officials, but called a different game than Chicago area kids are used to. Early fouls took their studs out of game and although a heavy favorite, lost. Even as a fanboy, this was before I started officiating, I understood the difference in this game. As a coach, I might have emphasized the possibility of a different flow to game based on where officials were from. A foul is a foul can mean different things to different people.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by fullor30

As a coach, I might have emphasized the possibility of a different flow to game based on where officials were from. A foul is a foul can mean different things to different people.

And that would be smart coaching on your part. All you can really hope for as a coach is consistency from the officials. It's up to you and your players to adjust to how loosely or tightly(or badly, for that matter) the game is being called.

As long as the same calls are being made consistently at both ends of the court, no one should have any complaints about the officiating imo. In that case, the officiating just isn't a factor in who wins or loses the game.

[jbduke]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Eventually, we will all get our heads screwed on straight and realize that thanks to the recent genome project and other scientific studies, there is no scientific support for what we now call "race" - only commonality of genetic tagging. It's a scientific fact that a white male has more in common genetically with a black male than he does with a white woman. If that's the case - and it is - how can their be a white "race" or a black "race"? The entire concept that people have inherited behavioral traits based on their skin color is hogwash.

People are just people. I look at people as individuals and I assume they are all good people until they prove me wrong. Period.

OK - I'll get down off my soapbox now. BTW - my best man at my wedding 31 years ago was a black male and we're still good friends. Also BTW - I know it's not politically correct (and I'm certainly not) but I don't hyphenate the word "American". Every citizen of this country is an American - end of story.

OK - I'll really get down off my soapbox now.

Your recitation of the science (or lack thereof) underlying race is undeniably true, but also completely unhelpful. That there may be scant biological difference between two people of different "races" does nothing to change the perceptions based on that difference.

As long as perceptions hinge even a little bit on differences we can see (and make no mistake, they do), "race" is going to be an important and meaningful category. That it is a cultural rather than biological category doesn't change that.

Racists aren't racists because they think the differences they perceive are biological. Racists are racists because they perceive meaning in physical differences in the first place. "Biology-based" racism was and is simply an ad-hoc justification for prejudices already firmly held. You may be able to dispose of that justification, but that will only be followed by a new one. Honestly, do you think you're going to convince a bigot of the error of his ways by giving him a genetics lesson?

(And writing "end of story" at the end of a post is bullying behavior. Period )

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by jbduke

Honestly, do you think you're going to convince a bigot of the error of his ways by giving him a genetics lesson?

Of course not. That would be impossible because if he's truly a bigot, he's too stupid to read, let alone understand something like science.

[mutantducky]

"And maybe some calls went against the team but if your team and players are acting like clowns and not respecting the game from the start then don't expect to get calls from the refs. Refs should try to be neutral but at any level bad mouthing them and not playing the game right will result in more calls going against the team."


So you think that comment is wrong? Seems basic to me and you see it all the time. NBA for instance and I've been to a bunch of games where that happens. If you don't think that occurs then you are ignoring refs like Crawford and others who give out T's much more freely(doesen't make them bad refs or the whole NBA ref scandal which only someone completely ignorant would deny there wasn't any truth to it.
As for my NCAA comments people can disagree about that line violation but the refs MESSED up on that last play where they didn't put time back. Others here have pointed that out as well.

somewhat off topic but it had to do with race, there was an article about flash mobs in Philly in the Nytimes today. From reading it most of the teens involved are from the inner-city parts.

[bradfordwilkins]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

"
So you think that comment is wrong? Seems basic to me and you see it all the time. NBA for instance and I've been to a bunch of games where that happens. If you don't think that occurs then you are ignoring refs like Crawford and others who give out T's much more freely(doesen't make them bad refs or the whole NBA ref scandal which only someone completely ignorant would deny there wasn't any truth to it.
As for my NCAA comments people can disagree about that line violation but the refs MESSED up on that last play where they didn't put time back. Others here have pointed that out as well..

Three questions

1) Your premise is that "players are acting like clowns and not respecting the game from the start then don't expect to get calls from the refs"... but then you explain your explanation deals exclusively with TECHNICAL fouls. Does it not stand to reason that if players are acting like clowns and being disrespectful, that then they would get Technical fouls?

2) How is the players getting technical fouls NOT getting calls from the refs? I guarantee you if I or 99% of referees give a player a technical foul and the next time down they go up for a shot and get fouled, I'm still calling that foul .
3) You throw Joe Crawfords name out there as "evidence" -- how many technical fouls has Joe Crawford given this year?

[mutantducky]

I was thinking of the Dirk ejection and mixed up Crawford with Bill Kennedy, easy mistake. Different story but just saw this.
NBA Referee Bill Kennedy Fined for His Antics, Union Cries Foul | Bleacher Report

Yeah tech are a separate issue. I think many refs will call a foul that favors a player or team that had been given a T but I will say that if a team before is showing that they are undisciplined, constantly arguing calls, then it MIGHT lead to refs calling more fouls against them or not calling fouls when they could go either way.

[bradfordwilkins]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

I was thinking of the Dirk ejection and mixed up Crawford with Bill Kennedy, easy mistake. Different story but just saw this.
NBA Referee Bill Kennedy Fined for His Antics, Union Cries Foul | Bleacher Report

Yeah tech are a separate issue. I think many refs will call a foul that favors a player or team that had been given a T but I will say that if a team before is showing that they are undisciplined, constantly arguing calls, then it MIGHT lead to refs calling more fouls against them or not calling fouls when they could go either way.

That story is a "column" written over a year ago... so its the only thing you can think of in the last year? And how many techs does Bill Kennedy have THIS year?

Your fan perspective is lacking any substance... Are you saying that you (I honestly can't believe you are one based on your comments on here but will give you the benefit of the doubt) as an official will give more fouls to a team that is complaining rather than call a fair and consistent game. If so, please sign your name and let us know your association so we can make sure they are on the same page with you.

Thanks.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

I was thinking of the Dirk ejection and mixed up Crawford with Bill Kennedy, easy mistake. Different story but just saw this.
NBA Referee Bill Kennedy Fined for His Antics, Union Cries Foul | Bleacher Report

Yeah tech are a separate issue. I think many refs will call a foul that favors a player or team that had been given a T but I will say that if a team before is showing that they are undisciplined, constantly arguing calls, then it MIGHT lead to refs calling more fouls against them or not calling fouls when they could go either way.

Ah, the Bleacher Report. Probably the most anti-official blog I've seen. What a credible source.