Awkward Jump Ball Administration - Foreshadowing....

[grunewar]

Last Night B8th Graders. I'm R. Do Captain's and Coaches Meetings, etc. Team's come out and are shaking hands and setting up to start game. Me, TWEET! "Everyone hold your spots" and I go to administer the jump ball. A11 ("star player") won't "get settled" in position around the circle and as he moves, his defender follows him. I give this a few seconds and then I say "Son, find a spot and keep it" and he finally did. But it took a good five to ten seconds of pre-game maneuvering.

The case book says:

6.3.2 SITUATION: The referee is ready to toss the ball to start the game. (a) A1 who was on the center restraining circle backs off; (b) B1 moves onto the
restraining circle into an unoccupied spot; (c) B2 moves off the circle and goes behind A2 and is within 3 feet of the circle; or (d) B3 moves off the circle about 5 feet and moves around behind A3 and A4 who are occupying spaces on the circle. RULING: Legal in (a) and (d), but a violation in both (b) and (c). Moving off the restraining circle in (a), and around the circle when more than 3 feet away as in (d), is permissible. It is a violation to move onto the circle as in (b), until the ball leaves the official’s hand, or into an occupied space as in (c), until the ball is touched. The violation by B results in a throw-in for Team A. (4-3).

Has anyone had a situation like this and invoked - TWEET! "B Ball" and then set the arrow, as a player would not get settled or violated? Just curious as it was awkward.

Guess the start of the game was a precursor of things to come....turns out A11 was a bit "troubled." He is the "star" and his buddy, the other "star" isn't on the team any more because he is academically ineligible. So A11 takes it upon himself to play 1 on 5 ball much of the night. I called him for an easy charge late in the 3rd quarter - #5. He goes and sits on the end of the bench - by himself. As I left the gym a parent/adult (unsure if it was his parent) was talking to him about being selfish, trying to do it all himself, not sharing the ball, etc....

[mbyron]

Your quoting the case play reminds me of why I no longer say "Hold your spots, everyone." That's not required by rule, so why should I require it. Kinda like "Wait till it hits the rim!" on a free throw.

I've not had to call the violation, nor seen it called.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by grunewar

"Everyone hold your spots"

Bad advice to rookie officials. A player on the circle can back away from the circle at any time, before, during, or after, the toss, or the touch.

This is similar to the advice given by a few officials before a free throw, "Let it hit the rim", when in fact the rebounders can legally enter the lane when the ball touches the rim, or the backboard. I have no problem with preventative officiating, but we should at least use the correct terminology, which will prevent those pesky rule myths that seem to keep popping up.

Edit: I was typing as mbyron posted. mbyron, remember that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

[Gargil]

Thanks for the advice. I was told by an Official with more experience to say hold your spots before moving forward to initiate the jump. I see how that can be confusing to the players, and myself.
Do you normally say anything to alert the players to the fact that you are going to initiate the jump?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Gargil

Thanks for the advice. I was told by an Official with more experience to say hold your spots before moving forward to initiate the jump. I see how that can be confusing to the players, and myself.
Do you normally say anything to alert the players to the fact that you are going to initiate the jump?

"(Whistle) All right, here we go. (To the jumpers) Don't steal it."

The whistle for me is the indication I'm about to move forward and toss it up.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Gargil

Thanks for the advice. I was told by an Official with more experience to say hold your spots before moving forward to initiate the jump. I see how that can be confusing to the players, and myself.
Do you normally say anything to alert the players to the fact that you are going to initiate the jump?

Telling them to hold their spots is like telling the non-shooters to go behind the division line during a FT for a technical or intentional foul.

I say two words before I toss the ball, as I'm walking into the circle.

"White." As I point towards white's basket.
"Red." As I point towards red's basket.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

...

"White." As I point towards white's basket.
"Red." As I point towards red's basket.

I stopped doing that....is it in the manual? I haven't looked it up.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Telling them to hold their spots is like telling the non-shooters to go behind the division line during a FT for a technical or intentional foul.

I say two words before I toss the ball, as I'm walking into the circle.

"White." As I point towards white's basket.
"Red." As I point towards red's basket.

OK, I do that, too, but before I blow my whistle and step into the circle. I also notify each team's captain that I'm about to toss. THEN, I blow my whistle, etc. etc.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I stopped doing that....is it in the manual? I haven't looked it up.

Not sure, I haven't either. I've gotten rid of a bunch of other stuff, like "hold your spots" on the first of multiple free throws. None of my partners or evaluators has said a word about what I say before the toss. Of course, it might be that they have bigger fish to fry with my game.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

"White." As I point towards White's basket.
"Red." As I point towards red's basket.

I also do this, with two additional steps. Before I say, "White", I point to White's bench, and then point to White's basket. Before I say, "Red", I point to Red's bench, and then point to Red's basket. To start the game, the bench points, and the basket points, should be opposite direction points. This is to make sure that the team's are going in the right direction to start the game. Nothing more embarrassing than to start the game going the wrong way. Of course the "pointing" would be in the same direction to start an extra period (Mark Padgett: See 4-17 for a definition).

Of course, I wouldn't say, "Red", if the visiting team was wearing some other color.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Of course, I wouldn't say, "Red", if the visiting team was wearing some other color.

Like or-ange or pink?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I say two words before I toss the ball, as I'm walking into the circle.

"White." As I point towards white's basket.
"Red." As I point towards red's basket.

Please don't do this.
Not only is it not proper procedure according to the NFHS manual, but it looks condescending. It seems like you are treating the players as if they are in elementary school. At the HS level, the players know which basket they are headed towards, especially at the varsity level.

All that you should do is check that the jumpers are in the correct halves of the circle, check with the captains that their teams are ready (A simple "Ready guys?" will suffice.), blow the whistle, and then go toss.

Most people don't notify the captains, but it is in the manual.

My experience is that referees who point direction for each team prior to the toss also tell the captains that we are playing the black line all the way around at the pregame meeting.

[Adam]

No need for the frowny face, Nevada, I was actually re-thinking this little bit.

I only had one partner give the black line speech this year, but a few point. Frankly, I didn't pay that much attention to whether my partners pointed as R.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

No need for the frowny face, Nevada, I was actually re-thinking this little bit.

I only had one partner give the black line speech this year, but a few point. Frankly, I didn't pay that much attention to whether my partners pointed as R.

My was no reflection upon you. It merely demonstrated how I feel about a referee taking that action prior to the toss.

I do pay attention because I also note if they tell the players to hold their spots. (Double frown to those folks!)

I guess I just feel that the pre-toss point lacks a certain professionalism and gives the impression to the coaches that the official is a newbie. It strikes me the same as crossing one's body to point direction on an OOB call instead of using the other arm.

JMO

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Please don't do this.
Not only is it not proper procedure according to the NFHS manual, but it looks condescending. It seems like you are treating the players as if they are in elementary school. At the HS level, the players know which basket they are headed towards, especially at the varsity level.
...

I stopped doing it b/c I noticed the officials whose work games I aspire to work don't do it.