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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 07, 2010, 07:44pm
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Time Out Request

Indiana HS game, 6.9 seconds left. trailing team cuts it to one and requests a time-out they do not have. Refs ignore request. almost 5 seconds go off clock and leading team inbounds and is fouled with 2.2.

A poster on another board and I are arguing this one. I keep saying the coach can only request the time out and if the refs judgement is that you don't have any to use and the other team would be put at a disadvantage if they granted it and T'd up the requesting team, thus stopping the clock, then there is no obligation to grant the request.

Help me settle this one please.
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Old Sun Mar 07, 2010, 07:46pm
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A timeout request which is properly made and recognized must be granted, whether the team has a timeout or not.

period
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Last edited by just another ref; Mon Mar 08, 2010 at 11:42am.
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Old Sun Mar 07, 2010, 07:47pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoBCat View Post
Indiana HS game, 6.9 seconds left. trailing team cuts it to one and requests a time-out they do not have. Refs ignore request. almost 5 seconds go off clock and leading team inbounds and is fouled with 2.2.

A poster on another board and I are arguing this one. I keep saying the coach can only request the time out and if the refs judgement is that you don't have any to use and the other team would be put at a disadvantage if they granted it and T'd up the requesting team, thus stopping the clock, then there is no obligation to grant the request.

Help me settle this one please.
There's no HS rule saying you would not grant a timeout request because it might "put the other team at a disadvantage". Are you sure the refs didn't grant the request because at the time the coach requested it, the other team already had the ball at their disposal? That's what it sounds like to me.

The only thing the refs would ignore in this situation would be a delay of game warning, which would stop the clock. There is a rule for that.
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Old Sun Mar 07, 2010, 07:51pm
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There's a case play, I believe, along the lines of what JAR posted. Grant the request, assess the technical foul, no judgment involved. (I'd look it up but I'm away from my computer.)
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Old Sun Mar 07, 2010, 07:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett View Post
There's no HS rule saying you would not grant a timeout request because it might "put the other team at a disadvantage". Are you sure the refs didn't grant the request because at the time the coach requested it, the other team already had the ball at their disposal? That's what it sounds like to me.

The only thing the refs would ignore in this situation would be a delay of game warning, which would stop the clock. There is a rule for that.
Actually, the team requesting the time out was complaining that the other team was delaying by not picking up the ball, they let it roll around a little and then picked it up and immediately chucked it in. The inbounder was kind of straddling the ball, not touching it backing up with it watching team mates and when he saw one open he picked it up and passed it in.

It happened pretty quick, but I think the ref started the 5 count as soon as the inbounding teams player went out of bounds and was about 5 feet from the ball.
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Old Sun Mar 07, 2010, 07:58pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoBCat View Post

It happened pretty quick, but I think the ref started the 5 count as soon as the inbounding teams player went out of bounds and was about 5 feet from the ball.
If the count had started, the ball was considered at the disposal of the team, so it was proper to ignore the request, but all this has nothing to do with whether the team had a timeout left or not.
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Old Sun Mar 07, 2010, 08:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoBCat View Post
Actually, the team requesting the time out was complaining that the other team was delaying by not picking up the ball, they let it roll around a little and then picked it up and immediately chucked it in. The inbounder was kind of straddling the ball, not touching it backing up with it watching team mates and when he saw one open he picked it up and passed it in.

It happened pretty quick, but I think the ref started the 5 count as soon as the inbounding teams player went out of bounds and was about 5 feet from the ball.
Once the official started his count the ball was considered at Team A's disposal and Team B should not be granted a time-out.
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Last edited by Raymond; Mon Mar 08, 2010 at 08:44am.
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Old Mon Mar 08, 2010, 05:06am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoBCat View Post
Indiana HS game, 6.9 seconds left. trailing team cuts it to one and requests a time-out they do not have. Refs ignore request. almost 5 seconds go off clock and leading team inbounds and is fouled with 2.2.

A poster on another board and I are arguing this one. I keep saying the coach can only request the time out and if the refs judgement is that you don't have any to use and the other team would be put at a disadvantage if they granted it and T'd up the requesting team, thus stopping the clock, then there is no obligation to grant the request.

Help me settle this one please.
ASk CHris Webber what happens in the NCAA tournament when you call time out and you dont have one...
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Old Mon Mar 08, 2010, 05:15am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoBCat View Post
Indiana HS game, 6.9 seconds left. trailing team cuts it to one and requests a time-out they do not have. Refs ignore request. almost 5 seconds go off clock and leading team inbounds and is fouled with 2.2.

A poster on another board and I are arguing this one. I keep saying the coach can only request the time out and if the refs judgement is that you don't have any to use and the other team would be put at a disadvantage if they granted it and T'd up the requesting team, thus stopping the clock, then there is no obligation to grant the request.

Help me settle this one please.
2001-2002 NFHS Basketball Interpretations

SITUATION 12: Team A has used all allotted time-outs. The scorer notifies the referee, who properly advises the Team A coach at the beginning of Team As last called time-out. During play later in the game, A4 attempts to call time-out when he/she is being pressured by B2 and 83. U2 ignores the request by A4. RULING: U2 should honor the request of A4, even when this would be a time-out in excess of the number allotted. Game officials do not have discretionary authority to assist players in avoiding rules violations. (2-7-6; 5-12-2)
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Old Mon Mar 08, 2010, 09:19am
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Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
2001-2002 NFHS Basketball Interpretations

SITUATION 12: Team A has used all allotted time-outs. The scorer notifies the referee, who properly advises the Team A coach at the beginning of Team As last called time-out. During play later in the game, A4 attempts to call time-out when he/she is being pressured by B2 and 83. U2 ignores the request by A4. RULING: U2 should honor the request of A4, even when this would be a time-out in excess of the number allotted. Game officials do not have discretionary authority to assist players in avoiding rules violations. (2-7-6; 5-12-2)
The only thing I would amend if I were editing this ruling would be to insert the words "or coaches" in the last sentence: "Game officials do not have discretionary authority to assist players or coaches in avoiding rules violations."
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Old Mon Mar 08, 2010, 12:04pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoBCat View Post
Actually, the team requesting the time out was complaining that the other team was delaying by not picking up the ball, they let it roll around a little and then picked it up and immediately chucked it in. The inbounder was kind of straddling the ball, not touching it backing up with it watching team mates and when he saw one open he picked it up and passed it in.

It happened pretty quick, but I think the ref started the 5 count as soon as the inbounding teams player went out of bounds and was about 5 feet from the ball.
1. If the timeout request was made prior to the official starting his count, it should have been granted.
2. If it was made after he started the count, ignore it.
3. If it's too close to tell, I'd ignore it.

Why was the team complaining if the official had started his count? Morons.
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Old Mon Mar 08, 2010, 12:06pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Why was the team complaining if the official had started his count? Morons.
Seems like you answered your own question.
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Old Mon Mar 08, 2010, 03:11pm
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Question about the procedure after the excess TO is granted.

Calling (granting) official goes to the table, reports TO. Then what?

Here is how I would do it. First notify the coaches that a TO is granted but we will have a technical foul coming out. Then, blow whistle and signal technical foul (very understatedly, no need to make a big flashy deal of it).

Is this outlined somewhere? Is it even necessary to blow your whistle and signal the T?
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Old Mon Mar 08, 2010, 08:17pm
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Originally Posted by bbcof83 View Post
Is it even necessary to blow your whistle and signal the T?
No.
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Old Mon Mar 08, 2010, 08:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbcof83 View Post
Question about the procedure after the excess TO is granted.

Calling (granting) official goes to the table, reports TO. Then what?

Here is how I would do it. First notify the coaches that a TO is granted but we will have a technical foul coming out. Then, blow whistle and signal technical foul (very understatedly, no need to make a big flashy deal of it).

Is this outlined somewhere? Is it even necessary to blow your whistle and signal the T?
There is some question as to whether to administer the 2 FTs before or after the time-out. I'm not sure that I've ever seen any clear guidance on this.
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