Pregame dunking - is it being well enforced?

[bearclause]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Another coach that doesn't know the rules.....

Dropping the ball in is NOT dunking as defined under both NCAA and NFHS rules. To be dunked by definition, the ball must be driven, forced or pushed through the basket. Simply dropping the ball down from above is legal and always has been legal. And that's also the spirit, or purpose and intent of the rule as written.

And no, it ain't offensive basket interference either for having a hand in contact with a ball in the cylinder. There's also a rules exception covering that action.

"Dropping" may not have been the best description. Some of the players were doing all the motions of a dunk and forcing the ball through. The one detail is that they were clearly avoiding hand contact with the rim during the motions.

Here's one (between the legs followed by a dunk), although it looks like it's well before the game has started and the refs are nowhere to be seen. It's not a huge dunk, but it's pretty clear it's being driven through the hoop and his hand contacts the rim.

YouTube - Syracuse Basketball Pre-Game 2010- SICK DUNK!!!

Here's a Michigan player putting on his own little pregame dunk exhibition and even pulling down the collapsible rim a few times:

YouTube - Brent Petway: Air Georgia

I'm just wondering if perhaps there really isn't a consequence to this as long as the officials haven't stepped onto the court. NCAA rules say that the officials' jurisdiction to call infractions starts 30 minutes before the start of the game.

I heard about some HS team that forfeited a playoff game because a player shattered a backboard while dunking during pregame warmups (I believe they weren't required to have a backup). I've also seen that the NCAA Tournament facilities manual requires at least one backup backboard, although there doesn't seem to be any such rule for regular NCAA play. If the kid in the 2nd clip somehow breaks a backboard even without the officials present, it seems a little strange if there aren't consequences for the action.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bearclause

Here's one (between the legs followed by a dunk), although it looks like it's well before the game has started and the refs are nowhere to be seen. It's not a huge dunk, but it's pretty clear it's being driven through the hoop and his hand contacts the rim.

I'm just wondering if perhaps there really isn't a consequence to this as long as the officials haven't stepped onto the court.

Any consequences would be strictly up to the league. If it doesn't happen during the officials' jurisdiction, then it's got absolutely nothing at all to do with us. It is neither our worry nor our concern.

[sseltser]

Originally Posted by bearclause

"Dropping" may not have been the best description. Some of the players were doing all the motions of a dunk and forcing the ball through. The one detail is that they were clearly avoiding hand contact with the rim during the motions.


I'm just wondering if perhaps there really isn't a consequence to this as long as the officials haven't stepped onto the court. NCAA rules say that the officials' jurisdiction to call infractions starts 30 minutes before the start of the game.

First, I can guarantee that both those games at major D1 programs were more than 30 minutes before the game because of how empty the arenas were.

Second, as Snaqs said, if I'm not sure, then it's not a T. If they are avoiding hand contact, then it's not dunking and it's not being a T.

Where are you trying to go with this?

[Nevadaref]

There was quite a display prior to the large school State Championship game here. (Yes, the officials were on the floor.)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

There was quite a display prior to the large school State Championship game here. (Yes, the officials were on the floor.)

And?

[Nevadaref]

And what? I was merely delivering facts. Are you looking for what action was taken?

The answer is absolutely nothing.

[eyezen]

Wasn't there some (hotly debated) thread a while back where the Texas guys come to the floor and blow their whistle?

[APG]

Originally Posted by eyezen

Wasn't there some (hotly debated) thread a while back where the Texas guys come to the floor and blow their whistle?

I'm not sure about the thread, but I can say that most in my chapter do indeed blow their whistle before entering the court.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

And what? I was merely delivering facts. Are you looking for what action was taken?

The answer is absolutely nothing.

And why not? Special rules in Nevada?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And why not? Special rules in Nevada?

Somebody's just waiting for the tournament crowd to show up.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And why not? Special rules in Nevada?

What if the injured player's mom came out on the floor and dunked?

I may have gotten two threads confused.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And why not? Special rules in Nevada?

Bunch of cowards in Nevada,that's why our buddy assumes the rest of us work with or are cowards also.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

There was quite a display prior to the large school State Championship game here. The officials were on the floor.

Had the officials been drinking within twenty-four hours of the tipoff?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bearclause

"Dropping" may not have been the best description. Some of the players were doing all the motions of a dunk and forcing the ball through. The one detail is that they were clearly avoiding hand contact with the rim during the motions.

Good enough for me. The main reason of the rule is to protect the equipment. If they don't touch the rim, it's not a dunk. It's a nit I'm not picking. If it's borderline/questionable, I'll walk up to the player and tell him to not be stupid. They never misunderstand that.

My second year in Wisconsin, I had a coach who wanted me to call this cause a player would drop/lightly push it down (he was almost 7 feet tall and would still have six inches between his hand and the rim). After a couple times of him whining, I told him "that's not a dunk, drop it". When I went to the table, he came over with a rulebook and dropped it on the book I was signing.

That was the one technical foul in my career I didn't call that I still regret to this day. Didn't matter, I ended up calling one during the game (and almost a second one, too). Thankfully, he retired soon thereafter and his replacement is one of the nicest guys you'd ever meet.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

If they don't touch the rim, it's not a dunk.

That statement is 100% wrong. JR will be along shortly to tell you the same.

Where in 4-16 does it mention anything about the ring?

Originally Posted by RichMSN

My second year in Wisconsin, I had a coach who wanted me to call this cause a player would drop/lightly push it down (he was almost 7 feet tall and would still have six inches between his hand and the rim). After a couple times of him whining, I told him "that's not a dunk, drop it". When I went to the table, he came over with a rulebook and dropped it on the book I was signing.

Sorry, Rich, but you got what you deserved. The coach had every right to be upset that you were using your own personal standard instead of the NFHS rules book definition. The coach may have been a jerk, but he was also correct about the rule.