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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 04, 2010, 09:42am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
One part you left out from this play. One of Duke's big men tapped the rebound towards the backcourt. The calling official may have felt that this was a controlled tap.
What is a controlled tap?
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Old Thu Mar 04, 2010, 09:52am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
What is a controlled tap?
Has player control been established? That's the only question that you can really ask.
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Old Thu Mar 04, 2010, 09:57am
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Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
Has player control been established?
If it was, it wasn't a tap, in terms that are most familiar to me.
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Old Thu Mar 04, 2010, 10:42am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
If it was, it wasn't a tap, in terms that are most familiar to me.
Well, I wasn't using the rulebook definition of a tap. Sorry for the sloppy language.
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Old Thu Mar 04, 2010, 10:46am
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Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
Well, I wasn't using the rulebook definition of a tap. Sorry for the sloppy language.
Well, it's better than sloppy discourse.
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Old Thu Mar 04, 2010, 10:49am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
If it was, it wasn't a tap, in terms that are most familiar to me.
Using rule book semantics...

1) a "tap" is a try for goal. There is no player control on a "tap", by rule.
2) a "tip" is simply touching the ball. There is no player control on a tip, by rule.
You can control the direction of both a "tip" and a "tap" without establishing player control at the same time.

If the ball comes to rest in a player's hand(s), then player control was established.

Is that what you're getting at, JAR?



Sooooo, the question in the Duke game was whether the ball came to rest in the Duke player's hand(s) before he directed it into the backcourt. I saw it and imo the ball never came to rest. I thought that it was tipped into the backcourt after a missed shot. Ergo, no backcourt violation. Blown call imo. It happens.

Last edited by Jurassic Referee; Thu Mar 04, 2010 at 10:51am.
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Old Thu Mar 04, 2010, 10:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
Using rule book semantics...

1) a "tap" is a try for goal. There is no player control on a "tap", by rule.
2) a "tip" is simply touching the ball. There is no player control on a tip, by rule.
You can control the direction of both a "tip" and a "tap" without establishing player control at the same time.

If the ball comes to rest in a player's hand(s), then player control was established.

Is that what you're getting at, JAR?



Sooooo, the question in the Duke game was whether the ball came to rest in the Duke player's hand(s) before he directed it into the backcourt. I saw it and imo the ball never came to rest. I thought that it was tipped into the backcourt after a missed shot. Ergo, no backcourt violation. Blown call imo. It happens.
There is (or was) some language in the rules/cae book to the effect that "there is no team control when the ball is batted away from other players in an attempt to secure a rebound."
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Old Thu Mar 04, 2010, 11:13am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
There is (or was) some language in the rules/cae book to the effect that "there is no team control when the ball is batted away from other players in an attempt to secure a rebound."
That's case book play 4.15COMMENT. That covers several situations where the ball is "tipped".

Bottom line is that it's always a straight judgment call whether the ball comes to rest, thus starting player and team control.
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Old Thu Mar 04, 2010, 11:19am
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I think the worst part of this is that Coach Krewshawoosky was right.
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Old Thu Mar 04, 2010, 10:56am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
Using rule book semantics...

1) a "tap" is a try for goal. There is no player control on a "tap", by rule.
2) a "tip" is simply touching the ball. There is no player control on a tip, by rule.
You can control the direction of both a "tip" and a "tap" without establishing player control at the same time.

If the ball comes to rest in a player's hand(s), then player control was established.

Is that what you're getting at, JAR?



Sooooo, the question in the Duke game was whether the ball came to rest in the Duke player's hand(s) before he directed it into the backcourt. I saw it and imo he didn't. I thought that it was tipped into the backcourt after a missed shot. Ergo, no backcourt violation. Blown call imo. It happens.
I was watching also...it was definitely tipped....though a directional tip, he most definitely never established control. And the 2nd Duke player attempted to grab the ball but most definitely didn't establish control either. So, in the end, a brain fart by the Final Four official who made the call. Makes me feel better about my brain farts.
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Last edited by Raymond; Thu Mar 04, 2010 at 12:44pm.
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Old Thu Mar 04, 2010, 01:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jurassic referee View Post
using rule book semantics...

1) a "tap" is a try for goal. There is no player control on a "tap", by rule.
2) a "tip" is simply touching the ball. There is no player control on a tip, by rule.
You can control the direction of both a "tip" and a "tap" without establishing player control at the same time.

If the ball comes to rest in a player's hand(s), then player control was established.

Is that what you're getting at, jar?



Sooooo, the question in the duke game was whether the ball came to rest in the duke player's hand(s) before he directed it into the backcourt. I saw it and imo the ball never came to rest. I thought that it was tipped into the backcourt after a missed shot. Ergo, no backcourt violation. Blown call imo. It happens.
+1
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Old Thu Mar 04, 2010, 10:07am
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Player control is established by holding or dribbling the ball; unless the "tap" constituted the start of a dribble, I don't see how that can work.
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