Another dumb commentator comment

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by mbyron

...

The BC: long rebound in Duke's FC, MD player then Duke player touches it in the FC (no team control), Duke player gets control in the BC. Tweet! As I saw it develop, I was thinking, "nope, not a BC." Guess I was wrong!

...

One part you left out from this play. One of Duke's big men tapped the rebound towards the backcourt. The calling official may have felt that this was a controlled tap.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

One part you left out from this play. One of Duke's big men tapped the rebound towards the backcourt. The calling official may have felt that this was a controlled tap.

I didn't see that. My recollection is that the ball bounced high off the back of the rim toward the backcourt, untouched.

Your recollection is more charitable to the officials.

[Rich]

I had one of these earlier this season and there was a tap (controlled or uncontrolled, that was the question) that ended in the backcourt.

I determined it was not a controlled tap, no-called it, and the home coach was incredulous that it wasn't a violation. At the next timeout, my partner told me it was a great no-call, that it certainly didn't fall under player control (it was off a rebounded shot), but I still wasn't really convinced myself. But sometimes you make a determination and that's that -- it's so close you just have to go with your instinct on the play.

[oldschool]

In watching the game it looked like it was tipped out by the big man on the rebound. Sheyer then tipped it in the front court and went and got it in the backcourt. I felt last to tip first to touch is a backcourt violation.

[mj]

Originally Posted by oldschool

In watching the game it looked like it was tipped out by the big man on the rebound. Sheyer then tipped it in the front court and went and got it in the backcourt. I felt last to tip first to touch is a backcourt violation.

Last to tip, first to touch is a violation if team control has been established. There is no team control on a shot.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by oldschool

In watching the game it looked like it was tipped out by the big man on the rebound. Sheyer then tipped it in the front court and went and got it in the backcourt. I felt last to tip first to touch is a backcourt violation.

If team control is established. If the "big man"'s tip and Scheyer's tip weren't controlled, then team control was not established and it's no violation.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

One part you left out from this play. One of Duke's big men tapped the rebound towards the backcourt. The calling official may have felt that this was a controlled tap.

What is a controlled tap?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by just another ref

What is a controlled tap?

Has player control been established? That's the only question that you can really ask.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Has player control been established?

If it was, it wasn't a tap, in terms that are most familiar to me.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If it was, it wasn't a tap, in terms that are most familiar to me.

Well, I wasn't using the rulebook definition of a tap. Sorry for the sloppy language.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Well, I wasn't using the rulebook definition of a tap. Sorry for the sloppy language.

Well, it's better than sloppy discourse.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If it was, it wasn't a tap, in terms that are most familiar to me.

Using rule book semantics...

1) a "tap" is a try for goal. There is no player control on a "tap", by rule.
2) a "tip" is simply touching the ball. There is no player control on a tip, by rule.
You can control the direction of both a "tip" and a "tap" without establishing player control at the same time.

If the ball comes to rest in a player's hand(s), then player control was established.

Is that what you're getting at, JAR?



Sooooo, the question in the Duke game was whether the ball came to rest in the Duke player's hand(s) before he directed it into the backcourt. I saw it and imo the ball never came to rest. I thought that it was tipped into the backcourt after a missed shot. Ergo, no backcourt violation. Blown call imo. It happens.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Using rule book semantics...

1) a "tap" is a try for goal. There is no player control on a "tap", by rule.
2) a "tip" is simply touching the ball. There is no player control on a tip, by rule.
You can control the direction of both a "tip" and a "tap" without establishing player control at the same time.

If the ball comes to rest in a player's hand(s), then player control was established.

Is that what you're getting at, JAR?



Sooooo, the question in the Duke game was whether the ball came to rest in the Duke player's hand(s) before he directed it into the backcourt. I saw it and imo the ball never came to rest. I thought that it was tipped into the backcourt after a missed shot. Ergo, no backcourt violation. Blown call imo. It happens.

There is (or was) some language in the rules/cae book to the effect that "there is no team control when the ball is batted away from other players in an attempt to secure a rebound."

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

There is (or was) some language in the rules/cae book to the effect that "there is no team control when the ball is batted away from other players in an attempt to secure a rebound."

That's case book play 4.15COMMENT. That covers several situations where the ball is "tipped".

Bottom line is that it's always a straight judgment call whether the ball comes to rest, thus starting player and team control.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Using rule book semantics...

1) a "tap" is a try for goal. There is no player control on a "tap", by rule.
2) a "tip" is simply touching the ball. There is no player control on a tip, by rule.
You can control the direction of both a "tip" and a "tap" without establishing player control at the same time.

If the ball comes to rest in a player's hand(s), then player control was established.

Is that what you're getting at, JAR?



Sooooo, the question in the Duke game was whether the ball came to rest in the Duke player's hand(s) before he directed it into the backcourt. I saw it and imo he didn't. I thought that it was tipped into the backcourt after a missed shot. Ergo, no backcourt violation. Blown call imo. It happens.

I was watching also...it was definitely tipped....though a directional tip, he most definitely never established control. And the 2nd Duke player attempted to grab the ball but most definitely didn't establish control either. So, in the end, a brain fart by the Final Four official who made the call. Makes me feel better about my brain farts.