Scorekeeper behavior

[SCalScoreKeeper]

Boys Quarterfinal last night-

I am the visiting scorekeeper for this game.

3-man crew (All games quarters and onward are 3-man in Southern California!)

Home scorekeeper is a HS Student who all game kept cheering/yelling for her team from the table! It was the usual fan stuff and lasted from first tip to final horn. At one point I try to gently nudge her into behaving like a table official but it really did not help. Two questions here-

A.Our playoff manual states that the official scorekeeper for ALL playoff games MUST be an Adult! Would you have asked Host AD to have her scorekeeper replaced for a playoff game by an adult? (Reason I ask-I handle Varsity books in basketball for visiting school-In Volleyball this fall I had a very good student scorekeeper who knew at the beginning she would be replaced by Me for any postseason home game!)

B.Where is the line for removing a scorekeeper for acting too much like a fan?
B1.How many table officials have you had to remove over the years?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

How many table officials have you had to remove over the years?

Twenty-nine years. None. But I have made some switches, making the visiting scorekeeper the "official" scorekeeper when the home scorekeeper couldn't do a competent job.

[grunewar]

I've replaced two:

One Rec dad for being a bit too overzealous, and

One MS student because when I asked how many team fouls each team had during a first half timeout I got a dear in the headlights look - the book was a mess.

Nothing in HS.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by grunewar

I've replaced two:

One Rec dad for being a bit too overzealous, and

One MS student because when I asked how many team fouls each team had during a first half timeout I got a dear in the headlights look - the book was a mess.

Nothing in HS.

I'll bet you a buck that you used the wrong homonym.

[bas2456]

Nearly had to remove the scorekeeper from a 7th grade rec game. She was the mother of a player and the wife of one of the coaches.

She was also the commissioner of that particular league. Would have been quite embarrassing for her. Read the full story here

[deecee]

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

Boys Quarterfinal last night-

I am the visiting scorekeeper for this game.

3-man crew (All games quarters and onward are 3-man in Southern California!)

Home scorekeeper is a HS Student who all game kept cheering/yelling for her team from the table! It was the usual fan stuff and lasted from first tip to final horn. At one point I try to gently nudge her into behaving like a table official but it really did not help. Two questions here-

A.Our playoff manual states that the official scorekeeper for ALL playoff games MUST be an Adult! Would you have asked Host AD to have her scorekeeper replaced for a playoff game by an adult? (Reason I ask-I handle Varsity books in basketball for visiting school-In Volleyball this fall I had a very good student scorekeeper who knew at the beginning she would be replaced by Me for any postseason home game!)

B.Where is the line for removing a scorekeeper for acting too much like a fan?
B1.How many table officials have you had to remove over the years?

As long as they are doing their job and not a hinderance who cares? Its one thing if they are just cheering and another if they are undermining the officials. I would only address it if that is the case or the opposition coach brings it up.

and in my 9 years only removed one scorekeeper because he started acting like a jack a$$.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

I'll bet you a buck that you used the wrong homonym.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[just another ref]

Only table person I ever got on pretty hard was the visitors' bookkeeper. First call against the visitors, when I got to the table she was rattling just like any other fan in the stands. "Oh, come on! He was straight up......." etc. I walked up really close and said "Ma'am, you are not going to sit at the table and call the game. It's just not gonna happen." She instantly got this OH MY GOD, WHAT HAVE I DONE? look. After that, the only problem I had was that she wouldn't stop apologizing, every time I got close for the whole first half.

[EHLNOLA]

This made me think of the most ridiculous situation I've had this year.

I walk into the gym for a Girls Varsity game and see two little girls sitting at the table. Thought nothing of it. I find my partner and we start pregaming. During this we decide that he is going to be the R. He was an older guy who has done HS for years and from what I understand he also does some small college ball. Well he goes to check the books and I realize that one of the little girls is filling out the lineups. Again, I think nothing of it. Game is about to start, he takes the game ball and heads into position for the jump. At this point I'm a little confused because we still have two little girls sitting at the scorer's table. One presumably to control the clock and the other would be the Home scorekeeper.

So I start thinking that maybe he has worked a game at this school with them working the table before and that they will have everything under control. So I decide I'm willing to give it a chance if he is.

After the tip the home team gains possession and sets up their half court offense. I'm lead and out of nowhere my partner blows his whistle and signals for an official's timeout. He then looks at me and points to the clock. (gym had one scoreboard/clock and it was positioned directly above the table) I look up at the clock and see 15:42 left. I immediately said to myself, "this is going to be a long game." He goes over and gets the correct time on the clock and we resume play.

Midway through the 1st quarter I'm T opposite bench and I hear some fan say, "Hey ref, the score is wrong." I ignored it and then the rest of the crowd begins to harmonize in a great rendition of the "Score's wrong!!!" chant.....awesome. At the next timeout me and my partner go over to the table to try to figure out if the score is correct or not. The visitor's scorekeeper happens to be the AC and has decided to sit on the bench. So during the timeout we have to pull her away from her team to match books. During this the little girl keeping the book keeps telling the V AC that if she was sitting at the table we wouldn't have these problems. Then the AC keeps telling her no, if you payed attention, yadda yadda yadda. So a miniature pissing match breaks out between them. So now we have to figure out the score and prevent the scorekeepers from yelling at each other. Also awesome. We get the score right and move on.

End of 1st half. Home's HC walks to bench and starts telling the scorer that the score should be ** -**. My partner turns to him and instructs him that if he has a problem he can ask us but he can't stand there and tell the "official" scorer what the score is. We then start comparing books. The home HC thinks they should have one more point. We look and see that both books have the same score. We then notice that both books were wrong. Each book had credited one player with hitting one 3 pointer. My partner and I both vividly remember two 3 pointers and the numbers of the players who had shot them so we correct the score and add a point for the home team. In talking to confim this with each we realize that the one that was missed was because we had put up a late signal for the 3 pointer. So at that point it seemed that the scorer's were marking the points down before the signal was given so it wasn't seen.

Anyway, all of these shenanigan's lasted for the rest of the game and the nonsense between the scorer's got more and more heated every time.

To add to the ridiculousness, V1 steals the ball and is on a fast break and goes up for an out of control layup and ends up faceplanting into the metal door jam that is along the endline. She had a defender guarding her but little to no contact occured so the only call i made was the OOB when she threw the ball up "toward" the goal and it landed OOB. Girl was on the ground for what seemed to be 10 minutes while she was bleeding profusely. Luckily a dad in the crowd was a doctor and was able to help her out. She ended up going straight to the hospital. Again, awesome.

Game ends, Home wins by 1 (of course). Fans start making remarks about us cheating and adding points and letting their girls get hurt.....

After the game was over my partner suggested to the Home HC that he should STRONGLY consider using adults at the table.

Ended up doing another game for the Visitor's later in the season and the girl who got hurt still serves as a captain but is out for the season with a face injury of some kind.

Other than the occasional overly excited dad during sub varsity games, this is the only time I could have or should have replaced anyone at the table.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by just another ref

"She instantly got this OH MY GOD, WHAT HAVE I DONE? look. After that, the only problem I had was that she wouldn't stop apologizing, every time I got close for the whole first half.

Last night B13U Rec Game - things are a little "testy" as playoffs are just around the corner ya know.

A mom of one of the better players has something to say on the first several trips down the floor, "Ooh," "Travel," "That's a foul." As I went by her as the T, she puts her hand over her mouth and says to the person next to her, "I better be quiet or they'll throw me out."

I looked at her and said, "It could happen."

Similar to JAR - she apologized to me several times during dead balls and after the game. Nice!

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

I'll bet you a buck that you used the wrong homonym.

Maybe, but we should check whether his wife is OK.

[kwv001]

I've replaced a scorekeeper once, about three years ago. A mother of one of the player's was keeping the book for the visiting team. During a time-out, she left the table and came out on the floor to confront my partner about a foul he had just called on her daughter. I saw her coming, and started to move to step in her way and prevent her from getting to him, but fortunately the home school AD beat me to it and handled the situation. I understand her school banned her from attending games for the rest of the season.

Just when you think you've seen it all...

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by kwv001

Just when you think you've seen it all...

Apparently, until I work with Padgett, I don't think this will ever happen!

[Jay R]

I've also had a few issues over the years, a Middle School student handling the clock was jumping up and down when his team scored etc.....

This year, I had two issues at the high school level. The first one was minor; a girl at the table had a look of disbelief that I had called a charge against "her" team. I quietly discussed this with her at the next timeout and she was fine after that. (she just reacted and had no intent to make me look bad)

The second incident bothered me more. I called a foul as a player drove to the hoop. I run over and start to report the foul. The scorer (a HS student) is giving me the double dribble signal. I motion to my partner to hang on and I go over and see what he means. I'm thinking maybe he means something else so I'm not going to jump on him right away. I get to the table and ask him what he meant. He says :"You missed a double dribble ". I gave him a short lecture on the behaviour of a scorer. He was almost crying. That was a first for me. When I was talking to my partner after the game, his smart *** response was to call the double dribble and then the scorers don't have to correct you.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

I'll bet you a buck that you used the wrong homonym.

My deer sir, you're being two picky.