Drunken Referree

[asdf]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Ahhhh, as mentioned in a prior post I knew this was close to home with you.

So, what's your take on Altar wine as I asked you before?

We have plenty of holiday tournaments with games starting at 9:00 am, do you have a cut off for the night before?

The funny thing is we're very close to agreeing here. I don't think it's a good idea to have a drink when you have a game the same day. I for one get tired with any wine or beer during the day no matter how small the quantity and rarely do partake. I'm certainly not arriving at game site with any hint of it on me.

I'm disagreeing with your absolute. Your judge and jury conclusions on suspected drinking by your partners is troublesome, and it appears you're carrying your job over into the officiating arena.

Of course you're entitled to believe as you wish.

As far as being "close to home".... (you have no clue, assume as you wish) I was challenged as to how I could detect alcohol on someone's breeath.

As far as the Altar Wine.....(talk about apples and oranges, but I'll play anyway) I don't know where you go to mass, but I have yet to experience a Catholic Church dispensing wine via a 12oz glass for each person.... nice try...

9:00am start...... I would not have any reason to be drinking after midnight, but that's just me.

I'll leave you to your insults.......... have at it.......

[Adam]

Originally Posted by asdf

As far as being "close to home".... (you have no clue, assume as you wish) I was challenged as to how I could detect alcohol on someone's breeath.

Dude, he said it was close to home, then you said your job requires you "to be trained in this type of detection." He may have no clue, but it sure as smoke seems he's write.

Without a breathalyzer, I still say you have no way of determining for sure whether the effects are due to alcohol or other sources. Would those behavioral symptoms preclude someone from working a game? Probably, but they don't mean an official's career should be over as you suggest; nor do they mean he has no integrity.

And frankly, if you can have a drink at 11:30 the night before a 9:00 am game, why can't someone have a beer at lunch on the day of a 7:00 pm game?

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Dude, he said it was close to home, then you said your job requires you "to be trained in this type of detection." He may have no clue, but it sure as smoke seems he's write.

Without a breathalyzer, I still say you have no way of determining for sure whether the effects are due to alcohol or other sources. Would those behavioral symptoms preclude someone from working a game? Probably, but they don't mean an official's career should be over as you suggest; nor do they mean he has no integrity.

And frankly, if you can have a drink at 11:30 the night before a 9:00 am game, why can't someone have a beer at lunch on the day of a 7:00 pm game?

Because ASDF says so

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by asdf

As far as being "close to home".... (you have no clue, assume as you wish) I was challenged as to how I could detect alcohol on someone's breeath.

As far as the Altar Wine.....(talk about apples and oranges, but I'll play anyway) I don't know where you go to mass, but I have yet to experience a Catholic Church dispensing wine via a 12oz glass for each person.... nice try...
9:00am start...... I would not have any reason to be drinking after midnight, but that's just me.

I'll leave you to your insults.......... have at it.......

"There is absolutely no reason for any official, of any sport, at any level to consume alcohol prior to working a game that day.

None................"


Dude, make up your mind.

[amusedofficial]

Originally Posted by Brutus

Dude, make up your mind.

Receiving communion in both species is not "consumption" of alcoholic beverages. First, the amount administered is generally less than a teaspoonful. Second, if you are a believer, you are not "consuming" an "alcoholic beverage."

Receiving "altar wine" is no more consuming alcoholic beverages than receiving the host during the sacrament of the Eucharist is having a sandwich.

Oh, and the difference is not just theological. When was the last time you saw a Catholic Church raided by the vice squad for distributing holy communion in both species without a liquor license?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by amusedofficial

Receiving communion in both species is not "consumption" of alcoholic beverages. First, the amount administered is generally less than a teaspoonful. Second, if you are a believer, you are not "consuming" an "alcoholic beverage."

Receiving "altar wine" is no more consuming alcoholic beverages than receiving the host during the sacrament of the Eucharist is having a sandwich.

Oh, and the difference is not just theological. When was the last time you saw a Catholic Church raided by the vice squad for distributing holy communion in both species without a liquor license?

You're assuming a very specific theology here. Not everyone who takes communion subscribes to transubstantiation.

And if the churches were selling the wine, you can bet they'd be raided.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by amusedofficial

Receiving communion in both species is not "consumption" of alcoholic beverages. First, the amount administered is generally less than a teaspoonful. Second, if you are a believer, you are not "consuming" an "alcoholic beverage."

Receiving "altar wine" is no more consuming alcoholic beverages than receiving the host during the sacrament of the Eucharist is having a sandwich.

Oh, and the difference is not just theological. When was the last time you saw a Catholic Church raided by the vice squad for distributing holy communion in both species without a liquor license?

You missed the point.

[Loudwhistle]

Reffing Rev,
Check your private messages.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by amusedofficial

If you are a believer.

Jesus said unto them, “I am the bread of life: he that comes to me shall never hunger. I am that bread of life.” (John 6:35, 48)

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by amusedofficial

Receiving communion in both species is not "consumption" of alcoholic beverages. First, the amount administered is generally less than a teaspoonful. Second, if you are a believer, you are not "consuming" an "alcoholic beverage."

Receiving "altar wine" is no more consuming alcoholic beverages than receiving the host during the sacrament of the Eucharist is having a sandwich.

Oh, and the difference is not just theological. When was the last time you saw a Catholic Church raided by the vice squad for distributing holy communion in both species without a liquor license?

Still, there is alcohol in the body. As far as the stance of some that there should be none before a game at all, it is the same. A silly argument for sure, but technically the same.

I don't drink so this is not an issue for me personaly. I just think those that think 1-2 beers at lunch should disqualify someone from working a game at 6pm are really only preaching thier own opposition to drinking rather than having any tangible reason for opposing it. Now, that person who had 2 drinks at lunch probably shouldn't drive for a few hours after lunch but that is a different point.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I just think those that think 1-2 beers at lunch should disqualify someone from working a game at 6pm are really only preaching thier own opposition to drinking rather than having any tangible reason for opposing it.

Swing and a miss...

My post game doesn't get any better than a couple of Dunkels along with a dozen wings.

My tangible reason is professionalism, respect for the game, respect for others.

If a someone who works for me has an important evening presentation and he decides to make the choice of having a couple of beers for to wash down lunch that day, he's just shown me that he has no respect for me, his job, his colleagues and others involved.

He's also history.

Still waiting a list of states that endorse the practice.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by asdf

Swing and a miss...

My post game doesn't get any better than a couple of Dunkels along with a dozen wings.

My tangible reason is professionalism, respect for the game, respect for others.

If a someone who works for me has an important evening presentation and he decides to make the choice of having a couple of beers for to wash down lunch that day, he's just shown me that he has no respect for me, his job, his colleagues and others involved.

He's also history.

Still waiting a list of states that endorse the practice.

I do understand your position on this. I do not personally drink much at all. I do not drink beer and going out to have a few is not my standard of a good time. But that being said, this does not relate to the topic very much. And just because you smell something does not mean someone has been drinking automatically. And it really is not just for you to make that decision. We cannot always take our professional standards into officiating. It does not always apply as many professions have very different standards.

Peace

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by asdf

If a someone who works for me has an important evening presentation and he decides to make the choice of having a couple of beers for to wash down lunch that day, he's just shown me that he has no respect for me, his job, his colleagues and others involved.

He's also history.

Obvious impairment is usually a good sign of a lack of respect for the job. However, according to one of our previous posters:

Originally Posted by ref2coach

Most humans process ~1/2 ounce of pure alcohol per hour. 1 shot of liquor, 1 beer, 5 oz wine each have ~1/2 ounce of alcohol. So depending on what time the drink(s) were consumed in relation to tip off time there may be absolutely no alcohol remaining in the blood stream.

Source, My Wife a full time Alcohol & Drug Counselor.

So, someone who has a couple of beers for lunch that day most likely has no alcohol in their system at the time of the evening presentation, so there is no alcohol-related impairment.

What basis are you using for your judgement of a lack of professionalism of this employee, and therefore the basis of his firing?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by m&m guy

so, someone who has a couple of beers for lunch that day most likely has no alcohol in their system at the time of the evening presentation, so there is no alcohol-related impairment.

What basis are you using for your judgement of a lack of professionalism of this employee, and therefore the basis of his firing?

+7

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Obvious impairment is usually a good sign of a lack of respect for the job. However, according to one of our previous posters:

So, someone who has a couple of beers for lunch that day most likely has no alcohol in their system at the time of the evening presentation, so there is no alcohol-related impairment.

What basis are you using for your judgement of a lack of professionalism of this employee, and therefore the basis of his firing?

Precisely. It's individual responsibilty. He's force feeding his own moral code on others and as a 'partner' I would find this troublesome.