Drunken Referree

Reffing Rev. · #1 (**permalink**) Sat Feb 13, 2010, 12:33am

Night off tonight...took my daughter to our local hometown game. We got there right at the end of JVB and take our seats with 20minutes on the clock until VG game. Waiting and watching to see whose working, 15 minutes on the clock, no officials, 10 minutes on the clock no officials. Finally 8 minutes until game time 3 guys I know pretty well, I've worked with 2 of them come out and get things going. Alright their behind, it happens, okay. One of the guys I know, who is a little bit of a jokster seems to be little bit more joking than usual, but I don't think anything about it, and neither do the two partners.

Well after the anthem, when the crew removes their jackets, our jokster has his shirt on backwards, and he doesn't notice. Game gets started, his calls are pretty normal, but his mechanics are awful. He can barely run and can't really walk straight. In one situation he was T and was so far out of position the point guard was running screens off of him and he didn't move. The straw that broke the back for me, midway through the first quarter hes at C and hes turned sideways talking to the cheerleaders in the front row of the bleachers. L rotates making him the new T, and we've got a fast break, he starts to walk down court such that L overruns him to take the new L.

Near the end of the quarter he turned from T to L and runs across the court stumbling and falling over. At that point the AD and school superintendant pull him out of the gym.

Here is my question, assuming you didn't pick up your partner's incapacity in pregame, at what point would you halt the game and tell him to get his backside into the locker room. And save yourself all the assignor comments, we don't have assignors in rural Nebraska, schools schedule officials directly.

mutantducky · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Feb 13, 2010, 01:02am

right away. It might be hard to tell if he was drinking right before and then it got worse as the game went on but no way would I work with a partner like that. If it meant working a game by myself then fine.

also off topic but I want to say screw NBC and their tape delayed BS. Show the games live!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nevadaref · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Feb 13, 2010, 02:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

Here is my question, assuming you didn't pick up your partner's incapacity in pregame, at what point would you halt the game and tell him to get his backside into the locker room. And save yourself all the assignor comments, we don't have assignors in rural Nebraska, schools schedule officials directly.

I would stay the heck out of it. I didn't hire him. He is not my responsibility. Worry about yourself.

Camron Rust · #4 (**permalink**) Sat Feb 13, 2010, 03:14am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I would stay the heck out of it. I didn't hire him. He is not my responsibility. Worry about yourself.

I'm not working the game with a drunk partner. Knowingly doing so is an invitation for a lawsuit if someone does get hurt. I might win such a suit but it will cost me to do so.

just another ref · #5 (**permalink**) Sat Feb 13, 2010, 03:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I'm not working the game with a drunk partner. Knowingly doing so is an invitation for a lawsuit if someone does get hurt. I might win such a suit but it will cost me to do so.

How is this any different from working with a partner who is otherwise incompetent? What would be the charges in such a lawsuit?

Nevadaref · #6 (**permalink**) Sat Feb 13, 2010, 03:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I'm not working the game with a drunk partner. Knowingly doing so is an invitation for a lawsuit if someone does get hurt. I might win such a suit but it will cost me to do so.

And how exactly do you determine that? Do you give him a breathalyzer test? Is he okay at .04, but not .08 or .10?
While I see the difficulty that such a situation poses for you as a partner, I seriously doubt that this is your call to make.
I advise leaving this up to the people who make the regulations for the officials in your area and handle the assignment process, even it that is the school AD.

Camron Rust · #7 (**permalink**) Sat Feb 13, 2010, 05:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref

How is this any different from working with a partner who is otherwise incompetent? What would be the charges in such a lawsuit?

The assignor knows the abilities of the partner but doesn't/can't know if the partner is drunk. The assignor can't do anything about it. And, if he did know, he pull the person instantly and he'd probably be kicked out of the association.

As for the lawsuit, there wouldn't be charges....it would be a civil lawsuit. Someone getting hurt and finding out the partner is drunk is all it would take for some to sue everyone that may have known. It doesn't have to be a sustainable claim. It would probably get thrown out but it would still cost a lot of money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

And how exactly do you determine that? Do you give him a breathalyzer test? Is he okay at .04, but not .08 or .10?
While I see the difficulty that such a situation poses for you as a partner, I seriously doubt that this is your call to make.
I advise leaving this up to the people who make the regulations for the officials in your area and handle the assignment process, even it that is the school AD.

It is the policy of our association that a person not work after drinking. If they are detectably drunk, they're way over .04 and possibly way over .10. Those levels just impair reaction time but, for some people, may not appear drunk to others. I'd bet the person described above was well over the legal limit for driving (given the behavior described).

And it is absolutely my call to make when someone else's actions put me at risk. This is no different than not working in a gym because it has a big puddle of water in the middle of the court. It's not my water and I didn't put it there, but if I know about a risk and ignore it, I can be held liable.

Nevadaref · #8 (**permalink**) Sat Feb 13, 2010, 06:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

It is the policy of our association that a person not work after drinking. If they are detectably drunk, they're way over .04 and possibly way over .10. Those levels just impair reaction time but, for some people, may not appear drunk to others. I'd bet the person described above was well over the legal limit for driving (given the behavior described).

And it is absolutely my call to make when someone else's actions put me at risk. This is no different than not working in a gym because it has a big puddle of water in the middle of the court. It's not my water and I didn't put it there, but if I know about a risk and ignore it, I can be held liable.

If your association has such a policy, then you could contact someone in an authority position with your association, but I serious doubt that you can decide if the other official that he/she is allowed to officiate or not. That's not the call of a partner.

I have no idea what you do in your normal job, but from your statements above, I doubt that you have worked in a union hall. If you get assigned to a job, you go do it and you have no control about who is working around you. Those other people may be on medication, drugs, alcohol, etc., but there are supervisors and safety inspectors to deal with that.
I see this situation as similar.

ripcord51 · #9 (**permalink**) Sat Feb 13, 2010, 09:10am

Sorry about that guys. I stayed at happy hour a little too long. I promise to be sober for tonites big rivalry game!!

tomegun · #10 (**permalink**) Sat Feb 13, 2010, 11:08am

Nevada,

Aren't you a lawyer?

fullor30 · #11 (**permalink**) Sat Feb 13, 2010, 11:27am

Wow, right out of Hoosiers. I don't grasp how partners couldn't detect he was tanked. I'd never let him hit the floor. As a friend or even fellow official, I'd tell him to leave and say he was ill. His career is over.

tomegun · #12 (**permalink**) Sat Feb 13, 2010, 11:30am

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30

Wow, right out of Hoosiers. I don't grasp how partners couldn't detect he was tanked. I'd never let him hit the floor. As a friend or even fellow official, I'd tell him to leave and say he was ill. His career is over.

See, why do you have to talk about the Hoosiers?

I'm sensitive about my home state.

fullor30 · #13 (**permalink**) Sat Feb 13, 2010, 11:32am

Really happened to me, I was scheduled to do a Lacrosse game late afternoon and had a business lunch that started late. I had a beer with lunch and was worried it was on my breath. I stopped at CVS and was pressed for time, grabbed a small travel bottle of mouth wash and took a shot as I got back into car, problem was it was hand sanitizer...........WOW!!!! My mouth lit up like three mile island

Juulie Downs · #14 (**permalink**) Sat Feb 13, 2010, 11:36am

I would definitely find a way to get him off the floor as soon as I detected some sort of on going impairment.

My only question to the OP, are you sure the problem was drinking and not some other health issue? A stroke can cause similar behaviors, as can certain other chemical imbalances such as very low blood sugar, and certain hormone imbalances that can develop quickly.

Regardless of the reason, the person should NOT be reffing and even in 2-whistle, should leave.

asdf · #15 (**permalink**) Sat Feb 13, 2010, 12:25pm

There is absolutely no reason for any official, of any sport, at any level to consume alcohol prior to working a game that day.

None................

If I am in the locker room and I detect alcohol on the breath of a partner, he/she isn't working. If he/she insists, then I tell him I am going to notify the game administrator, AD, coach and/or whomever else I can think of that the partner in quetion has alcohol on his/her breath.

If the guy/gal, is that dumb enough to try to work the game after that, then they deserve the subsequent forfeiture of their license.