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Old Thu Feb 11, 2010, 11:54am
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Simulaneous time out and foul

Loose ball, A1, A2 and B1 are scrambling for it. Just as A1 secures the ball, I have a foul on B1 and my partner has a whistle at the same time. We get together and I tell him I have a foul, he tells me he has a timeout request by HC for team A.

What do you do?
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2010, 11:55am
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Make a decision.

In your case, I probably lean towards the foul because the play was in your primary so I would say it would take longer for your partner to recognize that A1 has player control. His granting of the time-out may have been premature. But I'm making assumptions.
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2010, 12:02pm
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Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
Make a decision.

In your case, I probably lean towards the foul because the play was in your primary so I would say it would take longer for your partner to recognize that A1 has player control. His granting of the time-out may have been premature. But I'm making assumptions.
We went with the foul and my partner charged the HC a time out since he requested it. My question is would the coach then be able to rescind his timeout or not since he already requested it?
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2010, 12:05pm
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Originally Posted by fiasco View Post
We went with the foul and my partner charged the HC a time out since he requested it. My question is would the coach then be able to rescind his timeout or not since he already requested it?
I'd allow him to rescind it. Someone will be along soon to say it was already granted.
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2010, 12:05pm
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I am not granting the timeout if you call the foul....even if you have the timeout first you could have a dead ball technical if the contact if severe enough on the foul.
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2010, 12:06pm
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Originally Posted by fiasco View Post
We went with the foul and my partner charged the HC a time out since he requested it. My question is would the coach then be able to rescind his timeout or not since he already requested it?
The coach would definitely get the choice of whether he still wanted the timeout in my game.
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2010, 12:08pm
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I'd allow him to rescind it. Someone will be along soon to say it was already granted.
I agree. I think that makes me a coward.

And gratuitous shots at "someone" are always funny.
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2010, 12:26pm
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The gray area of when the time out is granted: It appears often. Here, as well as in games.
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2010, 12:27pm
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You've got to decide which was first, the granting of the TO or the foul. Under normal circumstances granting the TO first would be a good way to keep a foul out of the book.
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2010, 12:35pm
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You've got to decide which was first, the granting of the TO or the foul. Under normal circumstances granting the TO first would be a good way to keep a foul out of the book.
The whistle really were simultaneous. There was no way to determine what happened first without instant replay. We went with the foul since it was in my primary, but my partner was under the impression that once the timeout was requested, and granted, it couldn't be rescinded.

Is there a rule that either disputes this or backs it up?
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2010, 12:39pm
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Originally Posted by fiasco View Post
The whistle really were simultaneous. There was no way to determine what happened first without instant replay. We went with the foul since it was in my primary, but my partner was under the impression that once the timeout was requested, and granted, it couldn't be rescinded.

Is there a rule that either disputes this or backs it up?
Yes, the rule of Common Sense.

Which means our friend from the Donner Pass region should be along shortly to argue that rule.
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2010, 12:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiasco View Post
The whistle really were simultaneous. There was no way to determine what happened first without instant replay. We went with the foul since it was in my primary, but my partner was under the impression that once the timeout was requested, and granted, it couldn't be rescinded.

Is there a rule that either disputes this or backs it up?
The same rule I used to ask a coach if he still wanted it after I granted a TO following a change of possession. By rule, I should have stuck with it and granted it, giving the ball to the other team following the TO. I gave him the choice.

By rule, your partner was right. However....
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2010, 12:49pm
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I realize it's a mechanic and not a rule, but 3.4.4 A. 5. says "Do not grant a time-out after a foul until the necessary information has been given to the scorer.

It's weak, but you could point to this as a reason to give the coach a chance to rescind his request. Since you shouldn't grant the TO until after you report the foul you've decided occurred before the timeout, you don't have to give it.

Now, the same mechanic also says not to grant a TO while the ball is in possession of neither team or the opposing team, interrupted dribble, etc, and we know if we do grant one it is granted.

So, like I say, weak argument. But use it if you like.
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2010, 01:01pm
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Well, the good news is that he still wanted the time out. He was just arguing with me about how "by rule you have to give me the option of taking it or not."

I told him, "Coach, I'm not sure what rule you're referring to, but I'll make sure to look into it after the game."
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2010, 01:03pm
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Originally Posted by fiasco View Post
The whistle really were simultaneous. There was no way to determine what happened first without instant replay.
As Tom Hanks would say, "There's no simultaneous in basketball".
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