Back Court Violation ?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by trsandy

here's the worst part of the ruling .... The backcourt referee was standing out of bounds straddling the mid court line and was watching the exchange between A1 and A2. He had perfect vantage point. He did NOT call the infraction. The other referee (who was working his way toward the baseline) made the call !!!!

What level was this?

[Amesman]

Originally Posted by trsandy

here's the worst part of the ruling .... The backcourt referee was standing out of bounds straddling the mid court line and was watching the exchange between A1 and A2. He had perfect vantage point. He did NOT call the infraction. The other referee (who was working his way toward the baseline) made the call !!!!

Now THAT's ugly. (Along with the "two feet" explanation.)

But I'm still not totally clear from your description. It seems your 1) and 2) contradict each other a bit in your next-to-last post.

You say A2 is "airborne" when getting the ball (to me, that means no foot at all on the ground). If that's the case, he still has backcourt status and you have a violation -- doesn't matter where he lands AFTER he receives the ball. If however, he doesn't touch the ball until he has something landed in FC and nothing still touching BC, he's OK.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by trsandy

points of clarification.

(1) A1 is clearly in the Front Court prior to passing the ball to A2 who is airborne over midcourt line at the time of the pass.

(2) A2 clearly had no feet in or on the backcourt when he gains posession of the ball in the front court from A1. He clearly had one foot down in the Front Court when he caught the ball.

Not sure if this clarifies anything if you persist in misusing the term "airborne" which has a very specific meaning in ref lingo.

Doesn't really affect your sitch as the calling official has clearly been plagued by the myth monster!!!

Do a search within this forum for the latest basketball rules myth document. Sounds like you may need it in your games.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Amesman

But I'm still not totally clear from your description. It seems your 1) and 2) contradict each other a bit in your next-to-last post.

You say A2 is "airborne" when getting the ball (to me, that means no foot at all on the ground). If that's the case, he still has backcourt status and you have a violation -- doesn't matter where he lands AFTER he receives the ball. If however, he doesn't touch the ball until he has something landed in FC and nothing still touching BC, he's OK.

I believe what he is attempting to share is that A2 was airborne (having backcourt status) when A1 passed the ball. However, by the time A2 received the pass, he had come down on one foot in the frontcourt.

No contradiction, just a confusing use of the term 'airborne' as we typically use it.

[trsandy]

Can anyone point me to Chapter and verse of either NCAA or High School rule book that would substantiate not needing to have 2 feet down in front court to establish front court status ? thanks for all your input !

[Adam]

Originally Posted by trsandy

Can anyone point me to Chapter and verse of either NCAA or High School rule book that would substantiate not needing to have 2 feet down in front court to establish front court status ? thanks for all your input !

Before someone does that (and they will), I'll caution you against bringing this up in the game. What I mean is, I'd recommend against bringing the rule book out of your bag to show the ref when this call is made.

Now, if you see this particular official again, it might be an interesting topic for pregame discussion; but I wouldn't press it too hard.

[trsandy]

Absolutely agree with you on trying to make a Ref look bad on his hard-court. Usually your team ends up paying for it in the end. This Ref did 'T' me up (deservedly so) after I called him 'Crazy' for making the call, when the other referee was straddling the baseline watching the whole thing ( other ref got it right, by not whistling, but unfortunately only the whistle that blows counts !!) First 'T' I ever received.

[Adam]

Can't say I blame you for that one.

My books are in the car, but the relevant rule is player and ball location; particularly that a player's location is determined by where is he is touching the floor (or last touched the floor if he's airborne.)

[Amesman]

That would be your 4-35 (Player location). Worth perusing all three articles, though 4-35-3 mentions airborne specifically.