Most common mistake by refs

[TonyT]

No matter how hard they try they can't make chicken salad out of chicken sh**

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Really?

I watched a JV game last week where they had between 50-60 fouls and at least 20 of those I would've passed on. I'm not exaggerating.

If anything, this is the pattern I see at my games. A little bump, no advantage, foul. What's sad is that nobody seems to complain about it. At the varsity level, they would.

Agreed.

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Really?

I watched a JV game last week where they had between 50-60 fouls and at least 20 of those I would've passed on. I'm not exaggerating.

If anything, this is the pattern I see at my games. A little bump, no advantage, foul. What's sad is that nobody seems to complain about it. At the varsity level, they would.

Part of this, I think, is the difference between JV and Varsity basketball.

As someone who does mostly JV at the moment, the difference between bad JV basketball and decent Varsity is pretty huge as far as

A. What kind of contact a player can play through,
B. The ability of a defender to pressure without fouling, and
C. The players ability to grok what is being called and adjust accordingly.

At the varsity level, the guy getting the little bump plays right on through it - at the JV level, he takes two steps dribbles the ball off his face, falls down, and takes out a third player in the process. So you tend to be a little quicker on the whistle.

I watch plenty of Varsity games and think "Damn, that looks a LOT easier to officiate than JV...." The speed and size if faster and bigger of course, but the players are often under MUCH better control on both sides of the ball.

And as a Varsity football official who still does a lot of JV, that is often true in football as well.

Of course, the fact that JV games will generally have less experienced officials has plenty to do with it as well.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Berkut

Part of this, I think, is the difference between JV and Varsity basketball.

As someone who does mostly JV at the moment, the difference between bad JV basketball and decent Varsity is pretty huge as far as

A. What kind of contact a player can play through,
B. The ability of a defender to pressure without fouling, and
C. The players ability to grok what is being called and adjust accordingly.

At the varsity level, the guy getting the little bump plays right on through it - at the JV level, he takes two steps dribbles the ball off his face, falls down, and takes out a third player in the process. So you tend to be a little quicker on the whistle.

I watch plenty of Varsity games and think "Damn, that looks a LOT easier to officiate than JV...." The speed and size if faster and bigger of course, but the players are often under MUCH better control on both sides of the ball
.

Agree. Except for that grok part - I don't know what that means.....

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Agree. Except for that grok part - I don't know what that means.....

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Berkut

At the varsity level, the guy getting the little bump plays right on through it - at the JV level, he takes two steps dribbles the ball off his face, falls down, and takes out a third player in the process. So you tend to be a little quicker on the whistle.

Those things happen at the varsity level, too, just not as often.

Patient whistles allow us to evaluate advantage/disadvantage better. Once in a while a coach will say a whistle is late. I do my best not to thank him for noticing.

My point is that the quick whistle in the JV game means that those guys never get to determine advantage/disadvantage. In some games, most contact would be fouls. In some of the bigger schools, though, JVs play as well as small school varsity and slower whistles would make for better flowing games.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

I'll let you know when it happens...haven't seen it yet.

Are you serious? In my experience, the "call everything" stage last far longer (multiple seasons) than the "unable to blow the whistle" stage.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

I'll let you know when it happens...haven't seen it yet.

I do not agree with that Jeff. As I say in camps I work as a clinician for our state I am often witnessing the younger and inexperienced officials they call a lot of things (not the camps you and I are going to for college). And when I work a varsity game in front of a lesser experienced officials they call a lot of things that just are not there at all. And they get a lot of crap for it. I see where you are going with this and I do agree that as a whole we could blow the whistle more, but I think there are officials that go through stages. And usually one of the stages is to not call anything for fear of criticism. And the other stage is to call everything once they realize they will get yelled at. Then finally the veteran learns that you have to have an equal balance and call what is needed, not just blow the whistle just to blow the whistle.

Peace

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not agree with that Jeff. As I say in camps I work as a clinician for our state I am often witnessing the younger and inexperienced officials they call a lot of things (not the camps you and I are going to for college). And when I work a varsity game in front of a lesser experienced officials they call a lot of things that just are not there at all. And they get a lot of crap for it. I see where you are going with this and I do agree that as a whole we could blow the whistle more, but I think there are officials that go through stages. And usually one of the stages is to not call anything for fear of criticism. And the other stage is to call everything once they realize they will get yelled at. Then finally the veteran learns that you have to have an equal balance and call what is needed, not just blow the whistle just to blow the whistle.

Peace

2 years in, and I feel I'm still trying to get a "feel" and a recognition for that balance. It's probably the single biggest thing I take notice of when I watch good experienced refs work the V game that follows my JV.
I'm slowly getting better in a lot of areas....still have a long way to go in that one.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

2 years in, and I feel I'm still trying to get a "feel" and a recognition for that balance. It's probably the single biggest thing I take notice of when I watch good experienced refs work the V game that follows my JV.
I'm slowly getting better in a lot of areas....still have a long way to go in that one.

Acknowledging the balance is there is the first step. Getting past the "a foul is a foul" mentality is required.