Okay, I used it with a coach

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

The stop sign only works if you also say something like "coach ive had enough"

by itself its useless.

I don't think it's any more useful with the comments than without, but I never tried it alone, so I can't say for sure. I frankly think "i've had enough" just reinforces the dismissiveness of it. "I've had enough" is nothing more than a polite euphamism for "STFU." Adding "the hand" to it is just inviting the lava, IMO.

Again, there are those I respect in here who disagree with me, so obviously YMMV.

[deecee]

Then if the coach cant read between the lines as to what is coming next - oh well. I wont lose sleep over it.

It also shows that you have tried communicating with a coach, you reach that point and everyone sees that you hav had enough. You tell your partner that coach has been warned. Everyone knows that the coach is on the hot seat and if he doesnt change his behavior it will cost him.

Oddly enough no matter what you do the coach is almost always surprised that they got a T. I don't think the stop sign with a "Ive heard enough" is bad. Its the last straw and coaches need to understand that. If they dont like I said above. OH WELL!

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by deecee

I don't think the stop sign with a "Ive heard enough" is bad.

I use "That's enough, coach" when I give the stop sign. It's a somewhat less confrontational, but pretty much gets the same idea across.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

Everyone knows that the coach is on the hot seat and if he doesnt change his behavior it will cost him.

This is exactly my problem with this procedure. You're telling everyone in the gym that the coach is misbehaving. How is this not showing him up?

If I take the step of telling everyone in the gym that Johnny is being a bad boy, I've backed little Johnny into a corner.

My point is, I don't need to let everyone know. When I warn him quietly, he knows. That's all that matters. I'll tell my partners. I don't need to make a show of it in order to feel justified.

Look, as I've said before, if your area wants this done and your coaches see it as just another signal, fine. I recommend against using it for those officials who haven't been told specifically to do so.

If you need it as a crutch, use it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If you need it as a crutch, use it.

I need it as a tool.

And that's how I use it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I need it as a tool.

And that's how I use it.

Well then, maybe I'll try it next game.

Your local listings are obviously different on this one. I can live with that.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

This is exactly my problem with this procedure. You're telling everyone in the gym that the coach is misbehaving. How is this not showing him up?

Isn't it usually pretty obvious when the coach is misbehaving?

[deecee]

Didnt know I was dealing with kids when I officiate? Not my job to stroke their ego and if its so obvious OH WELL.

If you dont like doing it not a big deal but I dont treat coaches with kid gloves. They lost that right when they hit puberty and started complaining about everything they so feel like on the court.

If they cant act like an adult not my problem. There is nothing inflamatory being said and if the coach wants to take it that way I cannot control it. Just like I cannot control what a coach chooses to do I cannot control how he might "take" something.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

Didnt know I was dealing with kids when I officiate? Not my job to stroke their ego and if its so obvious OH WELL.

If you dont like doing it not a big deal but I dont treat coaches with kid gloves. They lost that right when they hit puberty and started complaining about everything they so feel like on the court.

If they cant act like an adult not my problem. There is nothing inflamatory being said and if the coach wants to take it that way I cannot control it. Just like I cannot control what a coach chooses to do I cannot control how he might "take" something.

You're right, they're adults and I prefer to treat them as such. Putting the hand up treats them like children, IMO. Again, it's my opinion gathered from my limited life experience. I'm not stoking their ego, I'm just refraining from treating them like an obstinant child.

I don't treat them with kid gloves, I talk to them as peers. My whole point is, unless the coaches in your area have learned that this is an accepted signal, I think it's a bad idea. If they have learned that it's just a signal no different than the "foul tip" or "not-closely-guarded" signals, then use it.

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I don't think it's any more useful with the comments than without, but I never tried it alone, so I can't say for sure. I frankly think "i've had enough" just reinforces the dismissiveness of it. "I've had enough" is nothing more than a polite euphamism for "STFU." Adding "the hand" to it is just inviting the lava, IMO.

Again, there are those I respect in here who disagree with me, so obviously YMMV.

When I first started officiating I needed a well defined method of dealing with the coaches. I was like many new officials in that I had no game management skills other then having thoughts of punching them in the face.

So the stop sign served its purpose for awhile. It was like step 2 in the whole process of dealing with the idiots. DO I think it inflamed the coaches, Yes. But it also let me practice giving T's due to them getting inflamed even more, so that was the good that came out of it.

Now I don't use the stop sign.

If it's a persistent thing I'll try and communicate with them but if they're being buttheads I move on. And when I've had enough they get their richly earned T's.

I have a very small rep of being a little quick on the trigger. Good. I like my rep. I think in our area the refs take way too much crap from the coaches.

Having said all that, 3 player T's, 3 coach T's, and 1 coach ejection this year.
That just doesn't seem all that unreasonable for about 45 Varsity games.

[Amesman]

Then again, we've all come to know you as a reasonable poster.

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

Having said all that, 3 player T's, 3 coach T's, and 1 coach ejection this year.
That just doesn't seem all that unreasonable for about 45 Varsity games.

My reputation like yours must preceed me. I have my 49 and 50th game this weekend and so far this year, 1 player T. In 29 years of officiating I have only ejected a coach once.

So moral of the story is call the T's when they are needed early in your career and eventually everyone will know how to behave when they see you on the floor.