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Old Sat Jan 30, 2010, 01:18am
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Call it? Or let it go?

Girls JV. Final two minutes. White leads blue by 20+ points - it has been a blowout from the first quarter.

Very low-key game. Not a lot of fouls called, clock runs down quickly. No issues with game-wreckers, etc.

White guard drives into the key. Anticipating a shot, a blue player on the baseline right in front of me is trying to get in position for a rebound. She doesn't succeed. A shot goes up and passes through the hoop, about two seconds after the ball goes through the blue player rares back and gives a good, firm, two-handed shove into the back of the white player she was battling with.

Instinctively I view it as something that needs to be call and blow my whistle. Then I realize it was a dead ball. I have no choice but to whack the girl.

In retrospect, I don't feel very good at that call. With so little time left, the score so lopsided, and no real management problems up to that point, I wonder if I should have just yelled at her to knock it off and gotten the game over with.

Thoughts?
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Old Sat Jan 30, 2010, 01:41am
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Originally Posted by utahkarakita View Post
Girls JV. Final two minutes. White leads blue by 20+ points - it has been a blowout from the first quarter.

Very low-key game. Not a lot of fouls called, clock runs down quickly. No issues with game-wreckers, etc.

White guard drives into the key. Anticipating a shot, a blue player on the baseline right in front of me is trying to get in position for a rebound. She doesn't succeed. A shot goes up and passes through the hoop, about two seconds after the ball goes through the blue player rares back and gives a good, firm, two-handed shove into the back of the white player she was battling with.

Instinctively I view it as something that needs to be call and blow my whistle. Then I realize it was a dead ball. I have no choice but to whack the girl.

In retrospect, I don't feel very good at that call. With so little time left, the score so lopsided, and no real management problems up to that point, I wonder if I should have just yelled at her to knock it off and gotten the game over with.

Thoughts?
That's truly dirty play, you had to call it. I believe you could probably pass on a common foul at that point in the game if it is marginal, but this is way beyond that. Easy to say from my laptop, but I believe I would have done the same thing.
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Old Sat Jan 30, 2010, 02:02am
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In my opinion, in this case, it depends on the severity of the foul. No matter the score you don't want to make the girl think it is all right to commit a hard foul I don't care what the score is. If it's not severe you might let it go just to keep the game flowing. A foul two minutes into the game is not necessarily a foul with two minutes left in the game and a twenty point spread.
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Old Sat Jan 30, 2010, 09:20am
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Can you imagine how the rest of the game would have gone had you NOT called it?
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Old Sat Jan 30, 2010, 09:36am
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HTBT. If the push is severe enough that it looks like the recipient might have a little whiplash, then an intentional T is a good call here. I don't think the fact that the game is nearly over is a license for the losers to beat people up.
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Old Sat Jan 30, 2010, 10:29am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utahkarakita View Post
about two seconds after the ball goes through the blue player rares back and gives a good, firm, two-handed shove into the back of the white player she was battling with.
Quote:
In retrospect, I don't feel very good at that call.
The second statement might indicate that the first is a little "over the top." If that's true, then even though you've blown the whistle, you don't need to give the foul. Give a "warning" instead. If a coach asks, tell the truth -- play was escalating, hadn't risen to the level of an intentional technical foul, and I didn't want it to get out of hand in the last two minutes."

On the other hand, if the first statement is correct, don't feel bad about the call. It's better that she learn the lesson in a 20-point game than in a two-point game.
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Old Sat Jan 30, 2010, 04:59pm
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OK, I'm missing something on this call. If it was a made basket, isn't the ball still live? If so, then wouldn't an Intentional Foul be the call here? Or, as has been suggested with the time/score in mind, blow the whistle and warn the player. I agree that no call at all is not a good idea.
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Old Sat Jan 30, 2010, 05:03pm
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Originally Posted by dragonref View Post
OK, I'm missing something on this call. If it was a made basket, isn't the ball still live? If so, then wouldn't an Intentional Foul be the call here? Or, as has been suggested with the time/score in mind, blow the whistle and warn the player. I agree that no call at all is not a good idea.
The ball had already gone through the basket (and presumably before the other team has started the throwin)...dead ball. It must be a T or nothing.
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Old Sat Jan 30, 2010, 05:05pm
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Originally Posted by mcdanrd View Post
A foul two minutes into the game is not necessarily a foul with two minutes left in the game and a twenty point spread.
Rule reference please.
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Old Sat Jan 30, 2010, 05:06pm
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
The ball had already gone through the basket (and presumably before the other team has started the throwin)...dead ball. It must be a T or nothing.
Thanks, I knew I was missing something. Clock is running but ball is dead. I should have remembered that due to correctable error restraints.
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Old Sun Jan 31, 2010, 03:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett View Post
Rule reference please.
The very first page of the NFHS rule book includes 3 paragraphs, the third of which states in part..."every individual using these rules is responsible for prudent judgement..."

101 Tips for Better Officiating a supplement to Referee Magazine includes several "tips" that might apply here, for example, control the game first and foremost..." or "It's realtively easy to officiate strictly by the rules, but that's not what we're looking for. We're looking for officials to apply the spirit and intent of the rules." - Verle Sorgen, formwer Pac 10 supervisor of officials, or " The worst thing is to call something that didn't occur. The second-worst thing is to call something that didn't need to be called. I ask myself: If I made a call on a contact situation, did it really need to be called? What would have been the impact on the game if I hadn't made that call?" - Dave Dodge, veteran major college basketball men's basketball official.
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Old Sun Jan 31, 2010, 04:42pm
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You have to call it. Next time down the floor she might push a player hard enough to knock them down.

Good call.
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Old Sun Jan 31, 2010, 05:00pm
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You didn't push anybody, the player did. All you did is penalize an action by a player.

Bad Play.......Good Call
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