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Old Wed Jan 27, 2010, 08:04pm
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Called 2 Shots - Should Have Been 1-and-1

Foul. Officials tell the boys its two shots but it should be one-and-one.

A1 misses the FT. A2 rebounds it and puts it back in while B players stand and watch.

Not correctable, correct? Didn't let them shoot an unmerited FT. Didn't deny them a FT.

Officials blew the whistle after A2 scored. Waved it off. Went AP.

Thoughts?
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Old Wed Jan 27, 2010, 08:09pm
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8.6.1

Takes a little judgement but not much. As I understand your OP, the officials got it correct.
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Old Wed Jan 27, 2010, 08:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spence View Post
Foul. Officials tell the boys its two shots but it should be one-and-one.

A1 misses the FT. A2 rebounds it and puts it back in while B players stand and watch.

Not correctable, correct? Didn't let them shoot an unmerited FT. Didn't deny them a FT.

Officials blew the whistle after A2 scored. Waved it off. Went AP.

Thoughts?
Since A2 was the "only" one who moved, the officials were right.

If "everyone" moved, then play on.
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Old Wed Jan 27, 2010, 09:20pm
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Correct. This is not a correctable error because it was caused by misinformation from the officials.
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Old Wed Jan 27, 2010, 10:10pm
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Originally Posted by Tio View Post
Correct. This is not a correctable error because it was caused by misinformation from the officials.
Not looking at a rule here, but just thinking.....This is not a correctable error, and while giving bad information makes the officials "look" bad, shouldn't the basket count? How do you wave it off, according to the rules (and not just wanting to correct "my bad")? I don't have heart burn with the OP, but it doesn't seem to mesh with the rules....
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Old Wed Jan 27, 2010, 11:00pm
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Originally Posted by Bishopcolle View Post
Not looking at a rule here, but just thinking.....This is not a correctable error, and while giving bad information makes the officials "look" bad, shouldn't the basket count? How do you wave it off, according to the rules (and not just wanting to correct "my bad")? I don't have heart burn with the OP, but it doesn't seem to mesh with the rules....
Case Book 8.6.1 is this exact situation.
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Old Wed Jan 27, 2010, 11:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spence View Post
Foul. Officials tell the boys its two shots but it should be one-and-one.

A1 misses the FT. A2 rebounds it and puts it back in while B players stand and watch.

Not correctable, correct? Didn't let them shoot an unmerited FT. Didn't deny them a FT.

Officials blew the whistle after A2 scored. Waved it off. Went AP.

Thoughts?
Had a similar situation earlier this season. Only difference was the basket went in but my partner and I didn't see that because a fight was about to break out. Miscommunication between the two of us, we awarded two shots and only one player stepped in to play the ball after the first FT was missed. I blew my whistle to stop play before rebounder shot the ball.

This is what I was told by the varsity officials watching the game at this point. Since only one player went in, there is obvious advantage/disadvantage here due to mis-information given. You go to the arrow in this case.
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Old Thu Jan 28, 2010, 01:20am
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Originally Posted by Scratch85 View Post
Case Book 8.6.1 is this exact situation.
No it's not, because in the case play the officials blow the play dead before the rebounder does anything with the ball.

The only precedent for canceling a score made due to a missed call is a throw-in violation following a score.

This needs to be blown dead immediately to avoid this.
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Old Thu Jan 28, 2010, 01:50am
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
No it's not, because in the case play the officials blow the play dead before the rebounder does anything with the ball.

The only precedent for canceling a score made due to a missed call is a throw-in violation following a score.

This needs to be blown dead immediately to avoid this.
Haven't we debated this very thing before?

Another one of them Nevada things, maybe?
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Old Thu Jan 28, 2010, 01:52am
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Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
Haven't we debated this very thing before?

Another one of them Nevada things, maybe?
Yes.
I'm not so sure he was alone on this one. He had a point, IMO.
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Old Thu Jan 28, 2010, 02:01am
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Yes.
I'm not so sure he was alone on this one. He had a point, IMO.
My recollection is that he said the basket would count if it is before the whistle, and pretty much everybody else said "Horsefeathers!" or something similar.

I'm with pretty much everybody else.
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Old Thu Jan 28, 2010, 09:07am
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Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Since A2 was the "only" one who moved, the officials were right.

If "everyone" moved, then play on.
Nevada will be along shortly to say it's too late to correct once A2 shoots and scores.
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Old Thu Jan 28, 2010, 09:23am
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Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
My recollection is that he said the basket would count if it is before the whistle, and pretty much everybody else said "Horsefeathers!" or something similar.

I'm with pretty much everybody else.
The question is whether the ball became dead. If the officials declares "two shots," then the ball is dead when the try is over, so the basket wouldn't count. The only exception is if the official is wrong and all the players go for the rebound.
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Old Thu Jan 28, 2010, 09:56am
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
The question is whether the ball became dead. If the officials declares "two shots," then the ball is dead when the try is over, so the basket wouldn't count. The only exception is if the official is wrong and all the players go for the rebound.
I like this reasoning.
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Old Thu Jan 28, 2010, 10:49am
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
No it's not, because in the case play the officials blow the play dead before the rebounder does anything with the ball.
I agree it's not the exact case due to the reason you have stated.

But what is the difference between a late whistle and this scenario. I know one difference is a violation versus a mistake by the officials. But 8.6.1 gives us a definite time when we are to blow the play dead (when one team is at an obvious disadvantage due to our misinforming players.) If we fail to whistle before a quick put back, I think it is well within the rules to whistle late and follow the case book play 8.6.1.
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