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Old Wed Jan 27, 2010, 05:48pm
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False Double vs Simultaneous

I didn't want to hijack the "Double foul in boys C-squad" thread so I am starting a new one.

In a sitch as described by chseagle; fouled shooter, followed by a foul while positioning for the ensuing rebound. Fouls are committed by opponents but not against each other.

How do you distinguish between a false double and a simultaneous foul. The more I think about it, the more I am leaning to simultaneous. Not that it should be of consideration, but (in this sitch) I prefer the penalty for a false double over simultaneous.

Is there a condition that I am missing that clearly distinguishes this sitch, or is it a sitch where either may apply?

I will hang up and listen to your answers.
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Old Wed Jan 27, 2010, 06:28pm
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Ideally, get together and figure out what happened. Unless the displacement on the rebound was severe (judgment call), I'd ignore it as there's no real advantage due to the foul. If you feel you can't ignore it (cleaning up a game or the displacement is measured in multiple yards), then I'd go with a false double. Free throws for A1 with the lane empty followed by a throwin (or free throws, if in the bonus) for B.
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Old Wed Jan 27, 2010, 06:30pm
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what he said

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Ideally, get together and figure out what happened. Unless the displacement on the rebound was severe (judgment call), I'd ignore it as there's no real advantage due to the foul. If you feel you can't ignore it (cleaning up a game or the displacement is measured in multiple yards), then I'd go with a false double. Free throws for A1 with the lane empty followed by a throwin (or free throws, if in the bonus) for B.

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Old Wed Jan 27, 2010, 08:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Ideally, get together and figure out what happened. Unless the displacement on the rebound was severe (judgment call), I'd ignore it as there's no real advantage due to the foul. If you feel you can't ignore it (cleaning up a game or the displacement is measured in multiple yards), then I'd go with a false double. Free throws for A1 with the lane empty followed by a throwin (or free throws, if in the bonus) for B.
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Originally Posted by cmathews View Post
yep
Dudes, you're not giving me much to go on here.

Let me rephrase my question. How do you determine whether this is:

A) Fouls by both teams, the second of which occurs before the clock is started following the first, and such that at least one of the attributes of a double foul is absent?
or
B) A foul by both teams which occurs at approximately the same time, but are not committed by opponents against each other?

Many situations will lend itself to one or the other. I am having a hard time finding what makes this sitch one or the other. If I was on this game, I would have been lobbying for a false double foul. The longer I look at it, the harder it is for me to decide why.
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Old Wed Jan 27, 2010, 08:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch85 View Post
Dudes, you're not giving me much to go on here.

Let me rephrase my question. How do you determine whether this is:

A) Fouls by both teams, the second of which occurs before the clock is started following the first, and such that at least one of the attributes of a double foul is absent?
or
B) A foul by both teams which occurs at approximately the same time, but are not committed by opponents against each other?

Many situations will lend itself to one or the other. I am having a hard time finding what makes this sitch one or the other. If I was on this game, I would have been lobbying for a false double foul. The longer I look at it, the harder it is for me to decide why.
Simultaneous fouls happen at the same "Wall Clock" time. False-Double fouls happen at the same "Game Clock" time but at different "Wall Clock" times.
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Old Wed Jan 27, 2010, 08:23pm
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Simultaneous: The fouls happened at approximately the same time.


False double: One happened clearly after the other.
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Old Wed Jan 27, 2010, 09:22pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch85 View Post
I didn't want to hijack the "Double foul in boys C-squad" thread so I am starting a new one.

In a sitch as described by chseagle; fouled shooter, followed by a foul while positioning for the ensuing rebound. Fouls are committed by opponents but not against each other.

How do you distinguish between a false double and a simultaneous foul. The more I think about it, the more I am leaning to simultaneous. Not that it should be of consideration, but (in this sitch) I prefer the penalty for a false double over simultaneous.

Is there a condition that I am missing that clearly distinguishes this sitch, or is it a sitch where either may apply?

I will hang up and listen to your answers.

Simulataneous fouls are, by definition, a double foul, but, by rule, the fouls are charged but no free throws are awarded.

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Old Thu Jan 28, 2010, 01:06am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch85 View Post
Dudes, you're not giving me much to go on here.
In a situation where you have a shooting foul and a rebounding foul, I'm going to assume the shooting foul was first every time; unless I know for certain it's not the case.
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Old Thu Jan 28, 2010, 09:00am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
In a situation where you have a shooting foul and a rebounding foul, I'm going to assume the shooting foul was first every time; unless I know for certain it's not the case.
I believe he is asking why, in the false double foul, the 2nd foul is not a tech since the clock is (or should be) stopped.
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Old Thu Jan 28, 2010, 09:02am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
I believe he is asking why, in the false double foul, the 2nd foul is not a tech since the clock is (or should be) stopped.
The clock being stopped is not the issue: it's whether the ball is dead.

If the shot is still in progress, the ball is not dead, so the 2nd foul would not (necessarily) be a T.
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Old Thu Jan 28, 2010, 09:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
I believe he is asking why, in the false double foul, the 2nd foul is not a tech since the clock is (or should be) stopped.
Although the clock stopped, the ball is still live until.....you know the answer.
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Old Thu Jan 28, 2010, 09:25am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
I believe he is asking why, in the false double foul, the 2nd foul is not a tech since the clock is (or should be) stopped.
I think he's asking how we choose between the two options here (false double and simultaneous). My answer: False double unless it's obvious that you can't.

The answer to your question has been provided.
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Old Thu Jan 28, 2010, 09:29am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianaref View Post
Although the clock stopped, the ball is still live until.....you know the answer.
I know the answer but the OP wanted to know and no one explicitly stated it.
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