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Old Thu Jan 21, 2010, 05:10pm
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Obstruction play

I don't want to fill the posts with all these random plays by some fella that is still learning the game, but a friend asked me to post this one. So if you can tolerate one more play I enjoy your insight.

This is a typically play that I see often. The Defender (I feel) established LGP, however his knees may be slightly outside the "normal" stance or the shoulder width stance. The offensive player does what he can to avoid contact yet there is still contact. Is this one I should've passed on?

YouTube - CHWJ_Block 2010_01_20_16_28_04.avi

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Old Thu Jan 21, 2010, 05:14pm
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The contact clearly effected the shot. Block all the way.
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Old Thu Jan 21, 2010, 05:18pm
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If the defender stuck his knees beyond the normal stance, he's responsible for the contact. If the contact disrupts the shooter (in this case), it's a foul.

This camera angle doesn't give much of an answer about either question, though, due to the players in the way. I can't tell if his knee was out, so I'll take your word on it.

Personally, I don't like knees and elbows going out, especially on a dribble drive like this, so I'd be inclined to have a foul to stop the behavior. It looks like his shot was sufficiently affected to justify it.
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Old Thu Jan 21, 2010, 05:19pm
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Question, would you have counted the basket?
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Old Thu Jan 21, 2010, 05:20pm
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Tough angle from what I can tell. HTBT to get a better view but I'm leaning more to a play on.
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Old Thu Jan 21, 2010, 05:24pm
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Blocking foul and two shots for me
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Old Thu Jan 21, 2010, 05:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wellmer View Post
Blocking foul and two shots for me
I'm not questioning the two shots, I just thought I'd add a question of whether the basket should have counted if it went in.

IOW, is this a play where you'd wave off a basket and award two free throws?
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Old Thu Jan 21, 2010, 05:30pm
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I watched it again and see your point now. After he heard the whistle, he throws it up hoping for two shots. Good call
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Old Thu Jan 21, 2010, 05:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
I'm not questioning the two shots, I just thought I'd add a question of whether the basket should have counted if it went in.

IOW, is this a play where you'd wave off a basket and award two free throws?
Good question Snaq.....I'm not sure. I awarded 2 shots, but didn't think about it going in. Yes I think I would have. Other opinions may show I'd be wrong
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Old Thu Jan 21, 2010, 05:34pm
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Originally Posted by Clark Kent View Post
Good question Snaq.....I'm not sure. I awarded 2 shots, but didn't think about it going in. Yes I think I would have. Other opinions may show I'd be wrong
I'm not saying you'd have been wrong, just thought it was worth discussing. My question really is, did he travel before the shot was released (but after the foul)?

I think he was definitely gathering for the shot prior to the foul.
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Old Thu Jan 21, 2010, 05:38pm
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Really hard to tell from the video if his knees were truly "out." If it was and that's where contact was, block. If not, I've probably got a "play on."
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Old Thu Jan 21, 2010, 05:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
I'm not saying you'd have been wrong, just thought it was worth discussing. My question really is, did he travel before the shot was released (but after the foul)?

I think he was definitely gathering for the shot prior to the foul.
No no I like the discussion....I'm ok being picked on too. If I was wrong I learn.

But in this case I believe he had gathered. He had no where else to go and had picked up his dribble prior both to the whistle and to the contact IMO. I am not sure if he travels as he lands on his left foot with his right foot (pivot) not touching the ground before the release.
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Old Thu Jan 21, 2010, 05:41pm
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I'd say you were right, then. I can't see the right foot very well, so I wasn't sure. I didn't think he traveled, but thought it was interesting that this is close to being one of those rare plays where you'd have to (by rule anyway) wave off a basket and award two free throws.

BTW, this is a great get from C.
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Old Thu Jan 21, 2010, 06:42pm
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The player had begun gathering the ball prior to contact so the shot will be good.

Secondly unless the defense does something to warrant the block this is a nocall in my book as the defense had guarding position. IF anything its a PC.

But like I said unless the defender does something like stick the knee out or move sideways into the offensive player this is one of those that look bad, but an incorrect call is worse.

I will say in the heat of the moment I might be apt to make a block call as well. Just got to be there to be able to correctly judge in the game.
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Old Thu Jan 21, 2010, 07:08pm
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New Blood

Clark,
First off, don't feel like you're hogging up the forum with your posted plays, they are totally relevant to reffing and great conversation pieces. I'm hungry for new posts on the forum and look forward to new blood. People who don't want to read or participate can choose to not click that particular post. (These beat the holy crap out of some posts about telling the reff a player has a shoe untied or similar WGAFF questions) This is a worthy post. The angle is tough for me, however, if a knee was put out and I do believe it was then a blocking foul should have been called. From the way you called the foul there is no doubt in my mind that you saw something and I thought you sold it well. All your body movements showed confidence: whistle, fist, indicate foul, done! Kind of biff, bam, boom. I do this almost the same. A question that I have is how many officials would show a blocking foul 2 or 3 times instead of just once? I am a hyper kind of guy and worry that I indicate the foul type to quickly and then head for the table. Thoughts? (Glad you didn't indicate the block with the tickle my waste signal!)
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