Confusion on Backcourt

[CDurham]

I'm having a hard time understanding some of the Backcourt Violation examples.
-Ball bounces in backcourt, A1 jumps from frontcourt grabs the ball in the air and throws it back to the front court. Violation?
-Team A throw-in, A1 jumps from front court grabs the ball in the air then lands in the backcourt. Violation?

Is there a way to understand some of the weird backcourt violations that can happen or what looks to be a backcourt violation but is not?

Thanks

[fiasco]

Remember the three keys: first to touch, last to touch, team control.

Those are the three things you need to ask yourself in order to determine backcourt.

Who was the first to touch the ball once it was in the back court?

Was it the last team to touch it in their frontcourt?

If so, did they have team control in the frontcourt?

If so, you have a backcourt violation.

[mbyron]

Step 1: Learn the 4 necessary conditions of a BC violation.
1. Ball has frontcourt status.
2. Team A has control.
3. Team A is last to touch in FC.
4. Team A is first to touch in BC.

Step 2: remember the exception for throw-ins.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Step 1: Learn the 4 necessary conditions of a BC violation.
1. Ball has frontcourt status.
2. Team A has control.
3. Team A is last to touch in FC.
4. Team A is first to touch in BC.

Step 2: remember the exception for throw-ins.

Careful. While that describes a subset of backcourt violations, it is not exactly right. It dosn't cover at least one possible group of backcourt violations...and the order is probably best thought of differently...

1. Team control
2. Ball has FC status
3. A was last to touch before the ball returned to the backcourt
4. A was the first to touch the ball after the ball returned to the backcourt

The difference in 1 and 2 is semantics but the difference in 3 and 4 is materially important as it doesn't matter where A touched the ball but only WHEN A touched the ball relative to it transitioning form FC to BC status.

In 3, A's last touch could be in the backcourt with the ball subsequently bouncing in the FC before returning to the backcourt. And in 4, A's first touch after having the ball go into the backcourt could still be in the frontcourt.

As an examle, imagine A1 getting trapped at the division line in the frontocurt. A1 throws a bounce pass to A2 who is in the FC also near the division line such that the bounce occurs in the backcourt. Neither A1 nor A2 ever touched the ball in the backcourt nor touched the backcourt yet it is a violation when A2 touches the ball.

You could flip the play around such that both players were in the backcourt with the bounce pass touching in the frontcourt. The result is the same....a violation.

[refiator]

Neither of these is a BC violation.
In the first, the player was still considered in the front court since he alighted from the front court when the ball was thrown.
In the second, no team control exists, so there can be no backcourt violation.

I once had a partner who called a a BC violation on a throw in- The thrower passed the ball at mid-court and a player jumped from frontcourt, caught the ball and landed in the backcourt. Since team control did not exist when he jumped, it was legal to catch the ball then land in BC. (In this case I blew my whistle, conferred, and gave the ball back to that team fo a throw in - a do-over.There is nothing in the rule book to to support this, but it is the right thing to do. Comments?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by refiator

Neither of these is a BC violation.
In the first, the player was still considered in the front court since he alighted from the front court when the ball was thrown.

Yes, but the ball bounced in the BC. This play is a violation.

In the second, no team control exists, so there can be no backcourt violation.

Right ruling (no violation), wrong reason. TC exists as soon as A1 caught the ball. All the conditions of a BC violation are met, and this would be a violation except for the exception in the rules.

[mutantducky]

should lead ever call a BC violation? I had one today where I clearly saw it go off A1(offense) players leg in the FC in a scramble and then A1 touched it first in the backcourt. A few players involved so the trail probably didn't see it and nobody called for backcourt(mainly because most players/c's don't know the rule. I passed on calling it. I assume in three person the center calling it would be ok in most cases.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Yes, but the ball bounced in the BC. This play is a violation.



Right ruling (no violation), wrong reason. TC exists as soon as A1 caught the ball. All the conditions of a BC violation are met, and this would be a violation except for the exception in the rules.

i was in the stands watching a GJV game last night, and had a BC/TC status question on this sitch:
:08 sec.to go in 1st half. Clock is stopped Team A has an end line throw in from under B's basket...all the remaining players from both teams are in A's FC.
A1 throws the ball in by rolling onto the court. As it gets close to the division line A2 runs up to the ball, straddles the division line (right foot in BC, left foot in FC), and stops the ball from rolling with her hand. Ball is still in BC on the floor and her hand is on top it, and she's still straddling the line.
My questions on the highlighted section:
1) Has A2 established TC?

2) If A2 has established TC, is it a BC violation?

3) If #2 is not a BC violation, when A2 picked up the ball (while still straddling the line) am I correct in assuming that if A2 lifted her right foot (the BC foot) first and brought that down in the FC..no BC violation? If A2 lifted her left foot (FC foot) and brought that down in the BC...BC violation?

4) Is it BC if from the "pinned to the floor position", while still straddling the division line, A2 rolled the ball back to A1 in the BC?

#4 is what actually happened in the game, refs let play continue. Not being critical of the refs here, like CDurham, I'm still having difficulty throughly understanding BC violations...bit have found all the replies to the OP helpful. Good question CD....it started, IMO, a good thread for us newbies.

[shutupneff]

Is the halfcourt line one or two-dimensional? By that I mean, is it an inch wide strip of court that is in the backcourt for both teams? If A1 has control of the ball and frontcourt status and barely steps onto the halfcourt line, obviously in front of an imaginary one-dimensional line running down the middle of the painted line, is it a violation? I can't imagine it's one-dimensional, unless maybe on one of those tiny courts with multiple halfcourt lines, but maybe...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by shutupneff

Is the halfcourt line one or two-dimensional? By that I mean, is it an inch wide strip of court that is in the backcourt for both teams? If A1 has control of the ball and frontcourt status and barely steps onto the halfcourt line, obviously in front of an imaginary one-dimensional line running down the middle of the painted line, is it a violation? I can't imagine it's one-dimensional, unless maybe on one of those tiny courts with multiple halfcourt lines, but maybe...

The full division line is in the backcourt of the team with the ball.

[Juulie Downs]

On the topic of backcourt violations, I saw a girl pull an amazing play in a really scruffy JV2 game.

Team A was trying to get the ball into their frontcourt, Team B had a pretty effective press going on. As the trap was just closing in on the dribbler, the ball squirted between the two Team B trappers toward center court. The ball bounced the last 10 feet and A3 in FC started running to retrieve it. She had both feet on the FC side of the division line, when she bent over to pick it up. But she apparently realized that it would be a violation if she did, so she WAITED UNTIL IT HAD BOUNCED IN THE FRONTCOURT!! I was astounded. She must have a ref for a dad. She clearly knew the rule!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

On the topic of backcourt violations, I saw a girl pull an amazing play in a really scruffy JV2 game.

Team A was trying to get the ball into their frontcourt, Team B had a pretty effective press going on. As the trap was just closing in on the dribbler, the ball squirted between the two Team B trappers toward center court. The ball bounced the last 10 feet and A3 in FC started running to retrieve it. She had both feet on the FC side of the division line, when she bent over to pick it up. But she apparently realized that it would be a violation if she did, so she WAITED UNTIL IT HAD BOUNCED IN THE FRONTCOURT!! I was astounded. She must have a ref for a dad. She clearly knew the rule!

I must be seeing the play wrong. The ball came from the BC, was bouncing in the BC, and it would have been a violation for a player in the FC to control the ball?

[Juulie Downs]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I must be seeing the play wrong. The ball came from the BC, was bouncing in the BC, and it would have been a violation for a player in the FC to control the ball?

I think so. First of all, remember A has team control. The ball, with BC status, bounces very near the division line in the BC, and is in the air when A1 with FC status reaches for it. Am I incorrect that if she touches it in the air at that point, it's a violation?

She waited until it bounced in the FC and then picked it up. Well, even if technically it would have been legal, I was impressed that she played it safe. It showed a respect for rules that I really appreciated.

[Adam]

Juulie, it wouldn't have been a violation anyway. the ball must gain BC status *after* it gained FC status in order for a violation to be committed.

[Juulie Downs]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Juulie, it wouldn't have been a violation anyway. the ball must gain BC status *after* it gained FC status in order for a violation to be committed.

Ah, right. I see. As if it were a pass from BC to FC. Duh. Got so wrapped up in the "last to touch before it gained and first to touch after it gained" stuff, I forgot the second criteria, FC status.