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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 14, 2010, 04:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bas2456 View Post
Tell them that whatever AP device you use could malfunction as early as tonight.
Well, if Rookiedude does the JV or C-Squad game in the secondary gym, will see what is used as an AP device...A handmade wooden arrow that spins around. So there are times the arrow gets flipped around due to the table getting bumped.

In the main gym, the AP is a light box on the scorers' table.

I, however, also keep track of the AP using the scoreboard when I'm scoreboard/timer, in case the AP device does malfunction.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 14, 2010, 04:49pm
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Originally Posted by chseagle View Post
Well, if Rookiedude does the JV or C-Squad game in the secondary gym, will see what is used as an AP device....
Rookiedude ain't a rookie. Far from it. I think that it's safe to say that you'll see him in the main gym.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 14, 2010, 09:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Looks like the officials did it the right way, given what they had to work with.
From reading the article, I'm going to disagree, but I'll ask Bob for clarification since it was his game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
While I wasn't the R, I was on the game. The R did go over to the table before OT and had a long (but not long enough, or else too long) conversation.
Bob, from the article it seems that the home book had the proper number of points for the home team in regulation, namely 52. I assume that this was the official book, and thus the official score. The fact that the scoreboard and the visiting book incorrectly displayed 51 shouldn't matter, right?
So it seems that what was done during the extra period was that the scoreboard and the visiting book were changed to reflect what was already in the home/official book. If that is the case, and the official book was NOT changed at that point, then I would say that the game should have been terminated at that point. This is different from changing the official book at some point in OT, which would cause the game to continue. In your case, had I been the R, I would have declared the home team the winner in regulation and filed a report with the state association/league.

Can you clarify exactly what took place, even though you were not the R?
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 14, 2010, 09:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjones1 View Post
Brings up a point...

When I'm R, at halftime, and towards the end of the game when I get a chance to get over there I ask the official scorer: "Is everything ok with the book?"

Is that all I can do? Could I ask a better question? What do you ask?
EVERY time I'm at the table in the fourth quarter (and also at halftime) I say,

"Running score and fouls, ok?"

I've never had a problem.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 14, 2010, 10:31pm
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Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
From reading the article, I'm going to disagree, but I'll ask Bob for clarification since it was his game.


Bob, from the article it seems that the home book had the proper number of points for the home team in regulation, namely 52. I assume that this was the official book, and thus the official score. The fact that the scoreboard and the visiting book incorrectly displayed 51 shouldn't matter, right?
So it seems that what was done during the extra period was that the scoreboard and the visiting book were changed to reflect what was already in the home/official book. If that is the case, and the official book was NOT changed at that point, then I would say that the game should have been terminated at that point. This is different from changing the official book at some point in OT, which would cause the game to continue. In your case, had I been the R, I would have declared the home team the winner in regulation and filed a report with the state association/league.

Can you clarify exactly what took place, even though you were not the R?
I didn't read it that closely, but good point.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 14, 2010, 10:33pm
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Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
Rookiedude ain't a rookie. Far from it. I think that it's safe to say that you'll see him in the main gym.
However there's no guarantee I'll be in the main gym.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 14, 2010, 10:34pm
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Here's another one from this past Friday here in Metro Detroit...

Romeo wins basketball game; Dakota to protest - The Macomb Daily Sports > Preps: Breaking news coverage for Macomb County, Michigan

Haven't heard how far the losing team actually went with their "protest".
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 15, 2010, 04:52am
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Originally Posted by knockitoff View Post
Here's another one from this past Friday here in Metro Detroit...

Romeo wins basketball game; Dakota to protest - The Macomb Daily Sports > Preps: Breaking news coverage for Macomb County, Michigan

Haven't heard how far the losing team actually went with their "protest".
I wonder if someone removed a jersey during the celebration.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 15, 2010, 06:52am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knockitoff View Post
Here's another one from this past Friday here in Metro Detroit...

Romeo wins basketball game; Dakota to protest - The Macomb Daily Sports > Preps: Breaking news coverage for Macomb County, Michigan

Haven't heard how far the losing team actually went with their "protest".
And another one where you have to talk to the officials involved to know the whole story before coming to any conclusions......but until then the officials should get any benefit of the doubt(if there is any doubt).

If there was unsporting behavior post-game by any of the Dakota players/coaches, as some of the bloggers suggested, then it was a righteous call. And big ups to the officials for having the 'nads to call it. There sureasheck is rules backing and direction for calling a "T" for unsporting behavior after time expired, as in case book plays 5.6.2SitF&G. Now if it was just the Dakota fans though.....
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 15, 2010, 06:54am
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Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
I wonder if someone removed a jersey during the celebration.
Naw, that couldn't be the call. The game was played in Michigan, not Nevada.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 15, 2010, 07:30am
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Late technical foul burns Dakota | detnews.com | The Detroit News

The MHSSAA said "excessive celebration and taunting" and "..some pushing and shoving did occur..".

You reap what you sow.

'Nuff said......good job by the officials.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 15, 2010, 08:26am
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What I like about the article Bob posted is that usually these articles rip the officials for being responsible. An unfortunate situation, but I like the fact that the author doesn't fix blame on anyone in particular. I'm sure the coach who actually had 52 at the end of regulation is re-thinking who keeps the scorebook and maybe even the responsibilities of the asst. coaches at the end of close games. As far as the official book never changing, great point but I am not sure it matters. Isn't the rule that once the OT begins, it must be played regardless of what else comes?
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Old Fri Jan 15, 2010, 08:53am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjones1 View Post
Brings up a point...

When I'm R, at halftime, and towards the end of the game when I get a chance to get over there I ask the official scorer: "Is everything ok with the book?"

Is that all I can do? Could I ask a better question? What do you ask?
I do something similar to this. Last night as the R, I went to the table and asked each one of them - V Book, H Book, and scorer - "Everything OK?" I got the nods of the head.

I like the extra "Everyone have the same for score, fouls, and possession?" May start to use it.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 15, 2010, 09:05am
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Originally Posted by grunewar View Post
I like the extra "Everyone have the same for score, fouls, and possession?" May start to use it.
I used this line last night during the 8th grade games I was doing (in a gym that must've been from the 50's by the way) and both scorers looked at me like I was insane.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 15, 2010, 09:27am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knockitoff View Post
Here's another one from this past Friday here in Metro Detroit...

Romeo wins basketball game; Dakota to protest - The Macomb Daily Sports > Preps: Breaking news coverage for Macomb County, Michigan

Haven't heard how far the losing team actually went with their "protest".
Someone should just read a rules book if the coach actually means what he says here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach
"The only question that needs to be answered is whether a foul can be assessed after time has expired," Snyder said.
Regardless, it would certainly be interesting to talk to the crew and see some video from that one. I do think there are some things to be learned from discussing the situation in general.

One thing I took from the article is that if (and it's a big if) what the coach is saying the officials told him is accurate, it's a lesson that in a situation as controversial as that we should be as clear and descriptive about why we've taken action as possible. Explanations like "excessive celebration" isn't a rule book term and isn't very descriptive of what particular actions an official is penalizing.

Sounds like someone may have booted the ball, but they may not have known who. An explanation of "#34 kicked the ball in a punting fashion into the seats" is an example that a coach will have a hard time arguing with.

On a rules note, if more than one player was involved in an unsporting action, shouldn't they have assessed multiple technical fouls? And, is there any provision that would allow a team technical for unsporting behavior?
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