Hell of a game last night, feedback on a OOB call...

[ILRef80]

If you don't know, go to the arrow. Don't guess.

Around here, in two man crews, your partner would have been responsible for that line. The lead has their sideline and the endline, while the trail just has their sideline. Your new lead probably has the best view on this play. If neither of you saw it, just go to the arrow. You have to make compromises in a two man crew, and this is one of them, IMO.

[bbcof83]

Originally Posted by ILRef80

If you don't know, go to the arrow. Don't guess.

Around here, in two man crews, your partner would have been responsible for that line. The lead has their sideline and the endline, while the trail just has their sideline. Your new lead probably has the best view on this play. If neither of you saw it, just go to the arrow. You have to make compromises in a two man crew, and this is one of them, IMO.

Good Lord. He made the call with the info he had, you can't go to the arrow after the fact. How weak would that appear? You changed your call because of pressure from the coaches, or worse, the fans.

[ILRef80]

Originally Posted by bbcof83

Good Lord. He made the call with the info he had, you can't go to the arrow after the fact. How weak would that appear? You changed your call because of pressure from the coaches, or worse, the fans.

I wasn't at all trying to berate the guy, so your tone isn't necessary.

From what I gathered, he changed the call. My suggestion to go to the arrow would be in future cases (provided you don't know who touched it last).

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by ILRef80

I wasn't at all trying to berate the guy, so your tone isn't necessary.

From what I gathered, he changed the call. My suggestion to go to the arrow would be in future cases (provided you don't know who touched it last).

Sorry, that was an error in my post (which I have now edited). I did NOT change the call in fact.

At the time, I felt the only way I would change my call is if my partner was able to tell me he saw the ball go off of black. I guess I still feel that way.

[bbcof83]

Originally Posted by Berkut

Sorry, that was an error in my post (which I have now edited). I did NOT change the call in fact.

At the time, I felt the only way I would change my call is if my partner was able to tell me he saw the ball go off of black. I guess I still feel that way.

Yes, good job, you are correct. Once you made the call, the call was made and a change without help from your partner would have been unfounded. You did it right. Like Jurassic said, everyone will get over it fairly quickly.

[bbcof83]

Originally Posted by ILRef80

I wasn't at all trying to berate the guy, so your tone isn't necessary.

From what I gathered, he changed the call. My suggestion to go to the arrow would be in future cases (provided you don't know who touched it last).

OK, yes, sorry for my tone. If he hadn't seen anything and hadn't signaled yet, and his partner had no help, and he couldn't tell by the body language of the players... then go to the arrow.

[ILRef80]

Originally Posted by bbcof83

OK, yes, sorry for my tone. If he hadn't seen anything and hadn't signaled yet, and his partner had no help, and he couldn't tell by the body language of the players... then go to the arrow.

No sweat. I think we all agree that, once the call was made, just inbound it and move on. If it's the only call you missed, you still had a heck of a game.

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by ILRef80

If you don't know, go to the arrow. Don't guess.

But that is just it - I *did* know that white touched it before it went OOB - just don't know if it was touched *again* - judging from the reactions after I called the ball off white, it was...

I was not guessing, just making a decision based on (probably) incomplete information.

Around here, in two man crews, your partner would have been responsible for that line. The lead has their sideline and the endline, while the trail just has their sideline. Your new lead probably has the best view on this play. If neither of you saw it, just go to the arrow. You have to make compromises in a two man crew, and this is one of them, IMO.

Even in the backcourt?

We tend to want to the lead to help out on this call, but the sidelines in backcourt are the trails. now I shall have to go and check the mechanics manual to see if maybe we are not doing that correctly.

I was a little dissapointed my partner could not help - I try to stress how important it is for the lead to be cognizant of this spot on the floor, but it was looking like a fast break transition, so I cannot really fault him for being focused on getting down to the baseline.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Berkut

But that is just it - I *did* know that white touched it before it went OOB - just don't know if it was touched *again* - judging from the reactions after I called the ball off white, it was...

I was not guessing, just making a decision based on (probably) incomplete information.



Even in the backcourt?

We tend to want to the lead to help out on this call, but the sidelines in backcourt are the trails. now I shall have to go and check the mechanics manual to see if maybe we are not doing that correctly.

I was a little dissapointed my partner could not help - I try to stress how important it is for the lead to be cognizant of this spot on the floor, but it was looking like a fast break transition, so I cannot really fault him for being focused on getting down to the baseline.

Depends where you are.

When I work with my partners, we have our sidelines endline to endline.

In this situation, it would've been easier if the new L had either made a call or if he was unsure to stop the clock and ask for help. The extra time may not have made it easier for the new T to help, but that's a great chance to see if the players give the call away. Come together, talk, go with the players' reaction.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Berkut

Even in the backcourt?

We tend to want to the lead to help out on this call, but the sidelines in backcourt are the trails. now I shall have to go and check the mechanics manual to see if maybe we are not doing that correctly.

I was trained that the lead is responsible for his entire sideline, even in the backcourt. The Federation Official's Manual only states that the offical is responsible for the closest sideline and endline and does not differentiate beteween front and backcourt so it seems that the Fed agrees.

As I've been learning, this is tough to see in transition but the lead needs to be looking over his shoulder and watching the play. I've been conciously working on not putting my head down and running to my new position while transitioning to lead but it has been tough no doubt.

Keep in mind also that coaches and fans hoot and holler about a lot of things, but it doesn't make them right. Last week I had a coach grousing over a couple of out of bounds calls I made against his team when his dribbler would lose the ball and it would ricochet off their foot out of bounds. He could not comprehend how his dribbler could just lose the ball and it not be deflected by the other team. Not much you can do with that one.

[ILRef80]

Originally Posted by Berkut

But that is just it - I *did* know that white touched it before it went OOB - just don't know if it was touched *again* - judging from the reactions after I called the ball off white, it was...

I was not guessing, just making a decision based on (probably) incomplete information.



Even in the backcourt?

We tend to want to the lead to help out on this call, but the sidelines in backcourt are the trails. now I shall have to go and check the mechanics manual to see if maybe we are not doing that correctly.

I was a little dissapointed my partner could not help - I try to stress how important it is for the lead to be cognizant of this spot on the floor, but it was looking like a fast break transition, so I cannot really fault him for being focused on getting down to the baseline.

At least around here, yes, even in the backcourt the lead has that line. To make it easier, you have whichever side you are on for the entire length of the court, then the endline is also the lead's. OOB situations are just one of many compromises that you have to make in the 2 man system. Don't beat yourself up about it, you can't see through the players.

Like you said, a fast break often has the lead concentrating on beating the play. In fact, even with a 3 man crew, this type of play still needs the lead's help. If the new trail only sees the backs of the players, it's difficult to rule who caused the ball to go out of bounds. I always try to pre-game this with my partners.