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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 29, 2009, 07:02am
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Question concerning a case book play
Was reading through the case book & found this case play:

'10.4.5 SITUATION C: Substitutes A6, A7 & A8 enter the floor and fight with substitutes B6, B7 & B8.

RULING: A6, A7, A8, B6, B7 & B8 are charged with flagrant fouls & disqualified. Each head coach is charged with three indirect
technical fouls and disqualified & must leave the vicinity or the playing area &
have no further contact with the team. Because the substitute’s fouls were offsetting, no free throws will be awarded. Charge each team with three fouls toward the bonus & resume play at the point of interruption."

What would happen if in the process one of the team's foul count goes from 4 to 7? Wouldn't that become a bonus for the other team?
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Old Tue Dec 29, 2009, 09:07am
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No, because you don't shoot "bonus" free throws for flagrant or technical fouls.

And you wouldn't shoot free throws if there were a standard "double" foul and it gave one of the teams its 7th team foul.
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Last edited by Raymond; Tue Dec 29, 2009 at 09:10am.
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Old Tue Dec 29, 2009, 09:11am
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It would put them in the bonus for any subsequent free throws, but as BadNewsRef has stated no free throws would be shot for the flagrant fouls.
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Old Tue Dec 29, 2009, 11:51am
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What BadNewsRef & Thumper68 said......

FYI, the main purpose of this particular casebook play is to illustrate the difference in the penalties assessed to the head coach. Because they entered the court and participated in a fight, the HC gets an indirect T for each player that did so. If they had entered but did not actually participate in the fight, then the HC only gets a single indirect T.

How's the WX in Connell this morning - it's 30 & mostly clear so far here in Portland.....
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Old Tue Dec 29, 2009, 12:03pm
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Originally Posted by TimTaylor View Post
it's 30 & mostly clear so far here in Portland.....
Yeah, but there is rain predicted later today and also for at least the next seven days straight. Welcome to our world.

At least it's better than the two feet of snow with 20 mile an hour winds off Lake Michigan I grew up with in Chicago.
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Old Tue Dec 29, 2009, 12:54pm
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Originally Posted by Mark Padgett View Post
Yeah, but there is rain predicted later today and also for at least the next seven days straight. Welcome to our world.

At least it's better than the two feet of snow with 20 mile an hour winds off Lake Michigan I grew up with in Chicago.
It does have it's good points - I've never heard of anyone dying from a heart attack while shoveling rain......

I've seen that lake effect snow in Chicago up close and personal a time or two - it can get real ugly, real fast!
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Old Tue Dec 29, 2009, 03:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTaylor View Post
What BadNewsRef & Thumper68 said......

FYI, the main purpose of this particular casebook play is to illustrate the difference in the penalties assessed to the head coach. Because they entered the court and participated in a fight, the HC gets an indirect T for each player that did so. If they had entered but did not actually participate in the fight, then the HC only gets a single indirect T.

How's the WX in Connell this morning - it's 30 & mostly clear so far here in Portland.....
Concerning the WX it's cloudy & about 25-30 right now.

I read the rule book & realized about the bonus because of this being a mulitple foul situation with the same number of fouls for both teams on the play/call, so even though one team may get into the bonus doesn't mean they get the 1 & 1.
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Old Tue Dec 29, 2009, 03:23pm
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Originally Posted by chseagle View Post
Concerning the WX it's cloudy & about 25-30 right now.

I read the rule book & realized about the bonus because of this being a mulitple foul situation with the same number of fouls for both teams on the play/call, so even though one team may get into the bonus doesn't mean they get the 1 & 1.
With regard to the case play, it's irrelevant. Think about a slightly different play to understand why.

Team A has 7 fouls. A6 and B6 report to the table to sub in, and A6 punches B6, who retreats to his bench amidst all the whistles.

Team B will shoot the two shots for the flagrant T, but not the one-and-one. Bonus free throws (one-and-one or double bonus) are only shot for common fouls.
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Old Tue Dec 29, 2009, 03:27pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
With regard to the case play, it's irrelevant. Think about a slightly different play to understand why.

Team A has 7 fouls. A6 and B6 report to the table to sub in, and A6 punches B6, who retreats to his bench amidst all the whistles.

Team B will shoot the two shots for the flagrant T, but not the one-and-one. Bonus free throws (one-and-one or double bonus) are only shot for common fouls.
In the case play you're listing, no foul against B6 due to not participating in the fight.
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Old Tue Dec 29, 2009, 03:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chseagle View Post
Concerning the WX it's cloudy & about 25-30 right now.

I read the rule book & realized about the bonus because of this being a mulitple foul situation with the same number of fouls for both teams on the play/call, so even though one team may get into the bonus doesn't mean they get the 1 & 1.
Correct. Different kinds of fouls have different penalties. The penalty for a common foul when the foulee's team is in the bonus is 1&1. The penalty for a multiple foul does not involve the bonus. In the same way, the penalty for a team control foul or a player control foul does not involve the bonus.
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Old Tue Dec 29, 2009, 03:37pm
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Originally Posted by chseagle View Post
In the case play you're listing, no foul against B6 due to not participating in the fight.
Which was my point. You're not shooting the bonus free throws, even though there was no "offsetting" foul by B6. My point is that the case play has nothing to do with bonus free throws.
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Old Tue Dec 29, 2009, 06:39pm
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15 Degrees F And Clear In The Constitution State ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTaylor View Post
How's the WX in Connell this morning - it's 30 & mostly clear so far here in Portland.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett View Post
There is rain predicted later today and also for at least the next seven days straight. It's better than the two feet of snow with 20 mile an hour winds off Lake Michigan I grew up with in Chicago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTaylor View Post
I've seen that lake effect snow in Chicago up close and personal a time or two, it can get real ugly, real fast!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chseagle View Post
Concerning the WX it's cloudy & about 25-30 right now.
Since when did the Official Forum become the Weather Channel?
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Old Tue Dec 29, 2009, 06:43pm
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Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Since when did the Official Forum become the Weather Channel?
Since a holiday miracle happened about 2 hours ago and it started to snow here in Portland!!!

None of the weathercasters had predicted it (gee, what a shock). We have about an inch right now. My dog is out in the backyard having a field day. He loves snow.
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Old Tue Dec 29, 2009, 06:48pm
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Originally Posted by Mark Padgett View Post
None of the weathercasters had predicted it (gee, what a shock).
All of our DC and NVA weather people moved to Portland? Keep em!
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Old Wed Dec 30, 2009, 07:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Bonus free throws (one-and-one or double bonus) are only shot for common fouls.
That is the important piece of information to convey.
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