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Old Wed Jul 02, 2003, 09:19am
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I have seen the following question in case plays and it was ruled differently in each case play.

A1 is awarded two free throws. The officials fail to notice that A2 has line up in one of the lower marked lane spaces that should be occupied by team B. The officials discover it immediately AFTER the first free throw is successful. What is the ruling.

It would be nice if you could site a rule.
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Old Wed Jul 02, 2003, 09:26am
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There's no ruling to be made. All you have is a player in an incorrect lane space during a dead ball. Put 'em in the right places and move on.

Chuck
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Old Wed Jul 02, 2003, 09:55am
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Mr. Elias is correct,as usual.The above situation is not listed as one of the 5 errors that officials are allowed to correct-as per NFHS rule 2-10-1.Once the play's completed,that's all she wrote.
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Old Wed Jul 02, 2003, 11:57am
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Chuck -
just want to check ....if the official sees this while the shooter still has the ball for the first shot, we then have a double violation...right?


Mark
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Old Wed Jul 02, 2003, 01:00pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Mr. Elias is correct,as usual.
I thought you were ignoring ALL my posts!
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Old Wed Jul 02, 2003, 01:00pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
There's no ruling to be made. All you have is a player in an incorrect lane space during a dead ball. Put 'em in the right places and move on.

Chuck
What he said
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Old Wed Jul 02, 2003, 01:10pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by mdray
just want to check ....if the official sees this while the shooter still has the ball for the first shot, we then have a double violation...right?
That's correct. 9-1-2 (FED)

Interestingly, in the NCAA rulebook, I can find no rule that requires an opponent of the free thrower to occupy the first lane space. 9-1-4 (just as interestingly, there is no 9-1-3 in the NCAA rulebook ) states that no teammate of the free thrower can have that spot, but the only mention of requiring an opponent to occupy the spot is in an AR.

My guess is that the requirement for the opponent of the free thrower is in 9-1-3, but it was accidentally left out of the final edition of the rulebook. I'm gonna go check the rules online right now.
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Old Wed Jul 02, 2003, 01:17pm
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The online rules are exactly the same as the book I have. There's no 9-1-3. So it must have been accidentally left out. Oops!
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Old Wed Jul 02, 2003, 01:25pm
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That is what happens when you let coaches write the rule book :-(
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Old Wed Jul 02, 2003, 01:47pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
[/B]
Interestingly, in the NCAA rulebook, I can find no rule that requires an opponent of the free thrower to occupy the first lane space. 9-1-4 (just as interestingly, there is no 9-1-3 in the NCAA rulebook ) states that no teammate of the free thrower can have that spot, but the only mention of requiring an opponent to occupy the spot is in an AR.

[/B][/QUOTE]Chuck,NCAA R8-1-5(a&b)for Women and NCAA R8-1-6 for Men.
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Old Wed Jul 02, 2003, 02:14pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Chuck,NCAA R8-1-5(a&b)for Women and NCAA R8-1-6 for Men.
Ah, the requirement is in Rule 8, but since there's no mention in Rule 9, I guess there's no penalty if they don't do it
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Old Wed Jul 02, 2003, 02:18pm
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ok not rules book interpretation here but real life what do we do..... While it is a double violation if caught while the shooter has the ball, I would be more inclined to "not see it" until the shot was over, because the laws of preventive officiating say I should have seen that way earlier, and since I didn't, don't punish the shooter by taking a shot away.....I don't think kids do this on purpose (usually) and therefore I think what Chuck said earlier, line em up right for the 2nd shot and go....
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Old Wed Jul 02, 2003, 02:31pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by cmathews
ok not rules book interpretation here but real life what do we do..... While it is a double violation if caught while the shooter has the ball, I would be more inclined to "not see it" until the shot was over, because the laws of preventive officiating say I should have seen that way earlier, and since I didn't, don't punish the shooter by taking a shot away.....I don't think kids do this on purpose (usually) and therefore I think what Chuck said earlier, line em up right for the 2nd shot and go....


Mmmmmmmm....i dunno...blow the whistle, take the ball back, smile & politely get them lined up right & re-administer. If a coach wants to be a knucklehead about it just tell him you got something in your eye, or you thought you saw something on the ball, or on the floor, or you had a fainting spell, or a flashback, or you thought you noticed a light bulb that needed changing...or something.
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Old Wed Jul 02, 2003, 02:37pm
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good point, I was talking about whether to call it a Double Violation, I would be real hesitant to do that. I am with you if you don't leave it alone for the first then get the ball back and readminister the first shot....does this lightbulb thing get us back to the contest post, and how many coaches etc
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Old Wed Jul 02, 2003, 02:55pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
f a coach wants to be a knucklehead about it just tell him . . . you thought you noticed a light bulb that needed changing...or something. [/B]

I am ROTFL. Thanks for the chuckles!





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