Foul after the last buzzer

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by christianH

I appreciate your efforts guys but my question still remains unanswered.

Should the ref grant the free throws or should the ref call game over?

Would (or should) the ref have "granted the FTs" if the same contact occurred on the same shot earlier in the game?

The fact that the horn has sounded should have no bearing on this particular call.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

You can have a "normal" (not "common") PF on an airborne shooter after the ball becomes dead.

Even when the horn has sounded to end the period and the try is no longer in flight? Please note that this is a polite question, not a sarcastic statement.

Also, in my opinion, I believe that, in the absence of an intentional or flagrant act, a foul can be called up until the airborne shooter gets at least one foot on the floor, but that's an opinion based on common sense, because ...

I'm still confused by this wording: The ball does not become dead until the airborne shooter returns to the floor, when: Article 5, 6, or 7 occurs while a try or tap for a field goal is in flight. I'm confused because the try ended when it was certain that the try was unsuccessful, ergo, no try, no exception.

(Ergo? Where did that come from? I've been reading too many of mbyron's posts.)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by christianH

Hi guys,

last Wednesday was watching a game I have seen a situation when the offensive player whose team was 1 point down went for a jump shot in the last second while the defensive player was desperate to get as close as he could get to put the shooter off his shot.

Well in my interpretation before the shooter landed back on the floor there was contact and the defensive player is responsible for the contact as he was out of his cilinder.

Despite the fact that the shooter released the ball before the buzzer the contact occurred after the buzzer sounded end of the game.

Should the ref have called the free throws? Should the ref ignore the foul as the contact occured after the game has finished?


thanks guys

C

Mere contact does not mean there is a foul. The definition of a foul says it is contact "which hinders an opponent from performing normal defensive and offensive movements." Part of the definition of incidental contact states, "contact which does not hinder the opponent from participating in normal defensive or offensive movements should be considered incidental."

More oftent than not, the contact made in this situation (after the shot is released) is considered incidental because it had no bearing on the shot.

The other thing we look for is protecting the shooter from being undercut by a defender before he lands. If the defensive contact endangers the shooter's landing, then it could likely be a foul. As bob pointed out, the horn is irrelevant as long as the ball is either live or the shooter is airborne.

Does this answer your question?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Does this answer your question?

Hey? What about my question? Are you ignoring me?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Hey? What about my question? Are you ignoring me?

Sorry, Billy, I was taking it back to the OP. My 9 year old is begging for the laptop now, so I'll have to get back with you. i thought Bob took care of you, though.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Even when the horn has sounded to end the period and the try is no longer in flight?

Yes.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Yes.

Thanks, that's the way I would call it, but can you please explain my "Ergo" (no try, no exception).

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Not even close. You can have a "normal" (not "common") PF on an airborne shooter after the ball becomes dead. I gave you the reference before.

Billy, look at rule 4-19-1 and the note. It says "a personal foul also includes contact by or ON an airborne shooter when the ball is DEAD". The NOTE says that " Contact AFTER the ball has become DEAD is ignored UNLESS it is ruled intentional or flagrant OR is committed by or ON an airborne shooter."

Clear out the excess verbiage and that reads "Contact after the ball has become dead is ignored unless it is committed on an airborne shooter".

That's what both Bob and I have been trying to explain to you.

Ball dead---> contact on airborne shooter = a normal personal foul(of the shooting variety).

The period doesn't end until the play is over. The play is over when the airborne player lands. The period now ends after the fouled player shoots his FT's because the foul on the airborne player was considered part of the previous period.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Rule 4-19-1 and the note. It says "a personal foul also includes contact by or ON an airborne shooter when the ball is DEAD". The NOTE says that "Contact AFTER the ball has become DEAD is ignored UNLESS it is ruled intentional or flagrant OR is committed by or ON an airborne shooter." The period doesn't end until the play is over. The play is over when the airborne player lands. The period now ends after the fouled player shoots his FT's.

Bingo. Thanks. And thanks for your patience. When bob jenkins, and Jurassic Referee, speak, everybody listens. (Apologies to E.F Hutton)
(Jurassic Referee: I thought you were dead?)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

(Jurassic Referee: I thought you were dead?)

I am. I'm too dumb to lay down though.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I am. I'm too dumb to lay down though.

Oh, I get it:

IMDb Video: The Mummy (1932)

[christianH]

Thanks guys for your help.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I am. I'm too dumb to lay down though.

I'm dumber for having read this thread!.