Unsporting Acts

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by tjones1

Rochambeau or roshambo? I'm just asking for a friend.

I believe either is acceptable.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

In the second, would you consider a flagrant T?

Good question. Can there be a flagrant T involving contact during a live ball?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Good question. Can there be a flagrant T involving contact during a live ball?

Hmm. Not for contact. So, flagrant personal?

This is basically intentionally stepping on an opponent. I think I'd go w/ flagrant here.

[tjones1]

Agree - flagrant personal.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Hmm. Not for contact. So, flagrant personal?

This is basically intentionally stepping on an opponent. I think I'd go w/ flagrant here.

I think if you are going to go flagrant, flagrant personal.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I think if you are going to go flagrant, flagrant personal.

Yep. We would actually be penalizing the act of stepping on an opponent (flagrant personal) rather than the act of jumping off someone (technical).

[Back In The Saddle]

JMHO,

If I were going with a flagrant on this, it would be a flagrant T. I'm not penalizing the contact per se, which was not "of a violent or savage nature." I'm penalizing the player's unsporting behavior.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

JMHO,

If I were going with a flagrant on this, it would be a flagrant T. I'm not penalizing the contact per se, which was not "of a violent or savage nature." I'm penalizing the player's unsporting behavior.

I can see that. Do you think flagrant (one way or the other) is the right call here?

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

JMHO,

If I were going with a flagrant on this, it would be a flagrant T. I'm not penalizing the contact per se, which was not "of a violent or savage nature." I'm penalizing the player's unsporting behavior.

BITS,

I can see your point, but IMHO jumping off of someone's back could be extremely dangerous - all kinds of potential for serious injury (think spine and kidneys). Think I'd go with the flagrant personal.....

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

I can see that. Do you think flagrant (one way or the other) is the right call here?

It depends on the game context. As an isolated incident, I don't think this rises to the level of throwing a punch or driving an opponent into the wall. But, it's clearly a non-basketball play with serious potential to tank my game. In my mind the question will not be "should I toss him?" it will be "is there any good reason to keep him?"

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

BITS,

I can see your point, but IMHO jumping off of someone's back could be extremely dangerous - all kinds of potential for serious injury (think spine and kidneys). Think I'd go with the flagrant personal.....

I agree with the potential for injury. However, a flagrant personal is defined by the nature of the act, not the severity of the result, by the intent to injure not just potential to injure. In my opinion the act is not "of a violent or savage nature" nor would I characterize it as "violent contact such as: striking, kicking and kneeing."

However, debating exactly why to toss him is little more than an interesting academic exercise. The only real difference is who shoots and where the ball gets put back in play.

[Kelvin green]

I have actually called this. 1A (I think) All star game at the end of the season three or four years ago. A1 went off of A2's bak on all 4's.... Easy T

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

However, debating exactly why to toss him is little more than an interesting academic exercise. The only real difference is who shoots and where the ball gets put back in play.

Yep

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

However, debating exactly why to toss him is little more than an interesting academic exercise.

If we didn't engage in academic exercises, this forum would be a pretty boring place!

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

If we didn't engage in academic exercises, this forum would be a pretty boring place!

Yep. And I did say the "academic exercise" was interesting. It's a train of thought I'd never considered.

[sseltser]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I guess we are still on unsporting acts while straying.

What if: A1 legitimately falls to the floor and is on all fours. A2 drives to the basket, jumps off A1's back and dunks.

What if: B1 legitimately falls to the floor and is on all fours. A2 drives to the basket, jumps off B1's back and dunks.

Play 1, I agree T on A2. A1 didn't do anything to penalize.

Play 2, is either intentional personal or flagrant personal. I'll side with flagrant because I can't imagine keeping somebody around who steps on an opponent intentionally.

It can't be a T (if the ball is live), because the T is for teammates climbing on or lifting. A2 and B1 are not teammates.