Unsporting Foul

[Da Official]

Question: I know the rules say something to the effect that an Unsporting Foul is a non contact technical foul...

Help me to understand does the Unsporting Foul count in the scorebook as a common foul or Technical foul?

And if Technical foul it will count against the player's limit of 2 Technicals correct?

How many times have you actually seen a ref call an Unsporting Foul for Face Guarding?



Thanks!

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Da Official

Question: I know the rules say something to the effect that an Unsporting Foul is a non contact technical foul...

Help me to understand does the Unsporting Foul count in the scorebook as a common foul or Technical foul?

And if Technical foul it will count against the player's limit of 2 Technicals correct?

How many times have you actually seen a ref call an Unsporting Foul for Face Guarding?



Thanks!

Ha ha called one last week! Yes it is a technical foul, counts as a team foul towards bonus as well as a players 2 technicals for ejection.....

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by Da Official

Question: I know the rules say something to the effect that an Unsporting Foul is a non contact technical foul...

Help me to understand does the Unsporting Foul count in the scorebook as a common foul or Technical foul?

And if Technical foul it will count against the player's limit of 2 Technicals correct?

How many times have you actually seen a ref call an Unsporting Foul for Face Guarding?



Thanks!

I have not seen one yet, but I am sure I will sooner or later.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by kbilla

Ha ha called one last week! Yes it is a technical foul, counts as a team foul towards bonus as well as a players 2 technicals for ejection.....

It also counts as one of the five fouls toward a player's disqualification.

[JRutledge]

That rule for face guarding has only been around for a couple of years. Or the clarification has been around only for a couple of years. I have seen what would be clearly called a T today a few times in my career. None since the rule was change/clarified.

Peace

[Da Official]

Reason I ask is I called a few of these in Adult Rec games and the players act like I've just made up the rule out of thin air. LOL!

I tell the player when you defend a shot and put your hands straight up you're fine, but when you intentionally extend your arms 45 degrees and delibertly attempt to cover the shooters eyes it is an Unsporting Foul.

To be honest when I first started calling these I reported it as a foul...now I give em' the "T".

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Da Official

Reason I ask is I called a few of these in Adult Rec games and the players act like I've just made up the rule out of thin air. LOL!

I tell the player when you defend a shot and put your hands straight up you're fine, but when you intentionally extend your arms 45 degrees and delibertly attempt to cover the shooters eyes it is an Unsporting Foul.

To be honest when I first started calling these I reported it as a foul...now I give em' the "T".

Good call, imo.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Da Official

Reason I ask is I called a few of these in Adult Rec games and the players act like I've just made up the rule out of thin air. LOL!

I tell the player when you defend a shot and put your hands straight up you're fine, but when you intentionally extend your arms 45 degrees and delibertly attempt to cover the shooters eyes it is an Unsporting Foul.

To be honest when I first started calling these I reported it as a foul...now I give em' the "T".

They can block their vision, they just cannot put their hands or arms directly in their face. I hope you are not calling it because they are trying to block vision. The purpose of the rule is to prevent people from poking opponents in the eyes or directly in the face. This is not a penalty because someone just simply held their hand up.

Peace

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

It also counts as one of the five fouls toward a player's disqualification.

true as well

[Da Official]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

They can block their vision, they just cannot put their hands or arms directly in their face. I hope you are not calling it because they are trying to block vision. The purpose of the rule is to prevent people from poking opponents in the eyes or directly in the face. This is not a penalty because someone just simply held their hand up.

Peace

JR I respect your input so let me further explain:

On a shot, If B2 extends his arm 45 degrees and puts his hand 1 inch away from A2's face, I believe the face guarding rule applies warranting the Unsporting Foul.

On a shot, If B2's defensive position is 1 inch from A2 and B2 puts his hands straight up and cover's A2's face then I believe this would be legal due to the rule of verticality being that B2 has a right to his vertical space.

Also, what is "face guarding" other than attempting to obstruct the vision of the opponent? It is illegal in football, baseball, and basketball.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Da Official

JR I respect your input so let me further explain:

On a shot, If B2 extends his arm 45 degrees and puts his hand 1 inch away from A2's face, I believe the face guarding rule applies warranting the Unsporting Foul.

The most descriptive part of this post is the fact you stated the defender had their hand about an inch away from their face. The 45 degrees means nothing to me or has nothing to do with the rule. The rules says it is illegal to put their hands "near the eyes" of an opponent (10-3-7d Note).

And for the record the inch away from the eyes was not in your original description. And from a philosophy standpoint, I would have to see it before I made this call. I would not want to just call something just because it was close. I might even warn a player if I think that is what they were trying to do.

Originally Posted by Da Official

Also, what is "face guarding" other than attempting to obstruct the vision of the opponent? It is illegal in football, baseball, and basketball.

Also it is not appropriate to compare football and baseball to this discussion. First of all there is no rule for face guarding in baseball. The rule is obstruction or interference based on trying to prevent movement or making a play. Even in some cases preventing such action would be legal under the right circumstances. In Football face guarding is only illegal on forward passes and it is also illegal regardless of a specific distance. These examples have nothing to do with basketball and the rule basketball came up with. There are some things you can translate, this is not one of them.

Peace

[Da Official]

But JR...you do agree that "Face Guarding" is an attempt to obstruct someone's vision correct?


Guys I'm just wondering when is this ever called? I've never seen an official call this foul (other than myself). Why is it in the rule book if nobody understands it or wants to call it?

Peace...

[TD21]

Originally Posted by Da Official

But JR...you do agree that "Face Guarding" is an attempt to obstruct someone's vision correct?


Guys I'm just wondering when is this ever called? I've never seen an official call this foul (other than myself). Why is it in the rule book if nobody understands it or wants to call it?

Peace...

Nobody calls it becuase it rarely if ever happens. What you are describing is a defensive player closing out and contesting a shot. The rule you are misapplying is made to prevent a playing from continuously restricting another players vision. You can contest a shot by putting your hand up. You can not stand next to a player and continually wave you hand in their face so they can't see what is going on around them. This rule, much like a few others, would have to be a pretty excessive act in order to be called.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Da Official

But JR...you do agree that "Face Guarding" is an attempt to obstruct someone's vision correct?

It might be. But the rule is not called face guarding (if you want to be technical) and the rule says it is illegal to, "Purposely obstructing an opponent's vision by waving or placing hand(s) near his/her eyes."

Then the rule goes on to say under a note: "Purposely diverting an opponent's attention by waving is different than holding or waving the hands near the opponent's eyes for the express purpose of obstructing the vision so that he/she cannot see."

The NF made it clear this rule was to prevent poking someone in the face, not normal defending of a play by putting their arms up. The rule was not put in place to prevent defending a shot or a pass which requires waving of arms in many cases.

Originally Posted by Da Official

Guys I'm just wondering when is this ever called? I've never seen an official call this foul (other than myself). Why is it in the rule book if nobody understands it or wants to call it?

Honestly, I think you are having a harder time with this rule than most. For one I almost never see a player but there hand that close to someone's face without fouling them. And unsporting fouls are for non-contact situations, not ones that involve contact. Do not be a maverick because you read a rule.

Peace

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Da Official

But JR...you do agree that "Face Guarding" is an attempt to obstruct someone's vision correct?


Guys I'm just wondering when is this ever called? I've never seen an official call this foul (other than myself). Why is it in the rule book if nobody understands it or wants to call it?

Peace...

Then context in which I last called it was an inbounds play and the guard was "face guarding" his opponent and was holding his hands in front of the players face. The offensive player actually smacked his hand away once and he put it back again right in the players face. This is much different than closing out on a shot for instance and attempting to divert the concentration of the offsensive player on the shot....the only purpose of this was to obstruct his opponent's vision so he couldn't see....you are rarely if ever going to see this in a hs game b/c the coaches/players generally know this rule..i had it in an 8th grade game...