Tech or violation?

[ronny mulkey]

play :

official bounces ball to f.thrower and backs out. Before the shot leaves shooter's hands, official notices that opponent is not occupying bottom block.

Do you extend delayed violation signal for not occupying bottom block or is this a tech?

Please spare me the "officials should always check to make sure bottom blocks are occupied properly" sermon.

Mulk

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

play :

official bounces ball to f.thrower and backs out. Before the shot leaves shooter's hands, official notices that opponent is not occupying bottom block.

Do you extend delayed violation signal for not occupying bottom block or is this a tech?

Please spare me the "officials should always check to make sure bottom blocks are occupied properly" sermon.

Mulk

DEFENSE AND OFFENSE IN OPPOSITE SPACES
9.1.2 SITUATION B: A1 is shooting the first of a bonus free-throw situation. A4 and A5 are positioned in the first two marked lane spaces (near the end line) and 4 and B5 are positioned in the second two marked lane spaces. The incorrect alignment is discovered by the officials (a) before the ball is at the disposal of A1; (b) after the ball is at A1's disposal, but before the try is in flight; (c) when the try is in flight; (d) when the successful try goes through the cylinder; (e) when the unsuccessful try is rebounding off the basket ring; or (f) when the rebound of the unsuccessful try is securely in A4's possession. RULING: In (a), the administering official shall "reset" the free throw and put the players in their proper marked lane spaces. In (b) and (c) an official shall sound his/her whistle immediately and call a simultaneous violation, utilizing the alternating-possession procedure to put the ball in play. In (d), (e) and (f) the free throw has ended and the improper alignment is ignored. (4-20-3; 9-1-2 Penalty 3)

[Freddy]

Was this due to a delay deserving of the ROP procedure? If so, then 9.1.2A seems to answer the question.
If a delay of another sort kept the spaces from being filled, then 10.1.5C would prevail.
What other circumstance would have resulted the administering official bouncing the ball to the free thrower with one space empty ?
No homiletics here, just trying to understand the situation you cite.

[Adam]

It's a violation; assuming normal circumstances.

[tjones1]

If the defense and offense were in opposite spaces then 9.1.2 Situation B has the solution.

However, I think the OP is saying that the first space is just not occupied by anyone...I would just have a violation (although it shouldn't happen... oops, wasn't suppose to say that ).

[ronny mulkey]

no doubt that we had our heads up our asses to let this happen but happen it did. We have been discussing 10.1.5.c for the past couple of weeks and the T is IF there is a delay in complying to the official's request to occupy the lane. Right? And, not because the block was unoccupied?

The 9.1.2 ruling leads me to believe that is merely a violation for not being in the bottom block. Right?

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

no doubt that we had our heads up our asses to let this happen but happen it did. We have been discussing 10.1.5.c for the past couple of weeks and the T is IF there is a delay in complying to the official's request to occupy the lane. Right? And, not because the block was unoccupied?

The 9.1.2 ruling leads me to believe that is merely a violation for not being in the bottom block. Right?

Correct. If they aren't occupying the first two spots, then they should be directed to occupy the first two spots and if they don't then a team technical foul is issued for delay.

Correct. Just a violation.

[mbyron]

Why should you be spared the sermon? You screwed up a call -- so what, we all do that. Thicken that skin.

The answers so far seem to be "if you're going to ignore the officials' error, then call a violation." But why ignore the error?

If you rushed to put the ball at the disposal of the thrower before everyone was set, whistle it dead, do it right, and don't penalize either team for your mistakes.

[PaREF]

The art of preaching.

Sorry, I had to look that one up. I learned a new word today!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Why should you be spared the sermon? You screwed up a call -- so what, we all do that. Thicken that skin.

The answers so far seem to be "if you're going to ignore the officials' error, then call a violation." But why ignore the error?

If you rushed to put the ball at the disposal of the thrower before everyone was set, whistle it dead, do it right, and don't penalize either team for your mistakes.

I don't think I quite agree with this. To me, it's similar to the 6 player issue. Count them every damn time, but if you happen to miss once and there are 6, call the T.

Similarly, make sure the defense is on the blocks; but if you happen to miss it and have a free throw where they don't get there, call the violation. I'm certainly not going to disrupt a shooter's rythm on this one, either.

It's the defense's job to get there.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Why should you be spared the sermon? You screwed up a call -- so what, we all do that. Thicken that skin.

The answers so far seem to be "if you're going to ignore the officials' error, then call a violation." But why ignore the error?

If you rushed to put the ball at the disposal of the thrower before everyone was set, whistle it dead, do it right, and don't penalize either team for your mistakes.

I disagree as well. The team technical foul would be for delaying the game by preventing the ball from promptly being made live as the official is not supposed to administer the FT without the bottom spaces being occupied by defensive players (unless RPP). However, since the official messed up and made the ball live, then there was no delay and hence no T is warranted. However, failing to properly be in those spaces during a FT is a violation. Therefore, the official should signal a delayed FT violation and allow the shooter to attempt the try. He will get another one if he misses. If the official whistles the play dead and then resets it, then there won't be another FT attempt if there is a miss and there is no penalty for the defensive team being slow to properly position themselves.
Of course, if the attempt is successful, then the violation is simply ignored, but a verbal warning to get to those spaces would be in order.