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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 21, 2009, 12:35am
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Team control foul
gave up stripes for coaching shirt a few years ago. Frustrated at this officiating decision (subvarsity contest): A is in double bonus. B1 inbounding ball under B basket. While ball is in air B2 pushes A1 to get open; Lead rules and signals Team Control foul and awards ball to Team A. I complain that team control had not been established and shouldn't it be shooting foul? Got the stop sign/wave off. Was the official correct? (yeah, I get it that I could look it up but did I mention that I am now coaching (grin))
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Old Mon Dec 21, 2009, 12:43am
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Not if the call was made while the ball was in the air.

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Old Mon Dec 21, 2009, 01:11am
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You were correct...should have been shooting free throws.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 21, 2009, 03:11am
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If this was an NCAA game, then the official was correct.

If this was an NFHS game, then the official was not correct.
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Old Mon Dec 21, 2009, 08:29am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjones1 View Post
You were correct...should have been shooting free throws.
Now, sit down, coach, and make your offensive call.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 26, 2009, 06:40pm
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Rule 4-12. Team control does not exist during dead ball, throw in, or jump ball. Therefore free throws should have been shot. Now if there was a foul off the ball while two teamates on the court were passing, no shots. A team has control of ball when being passed among teammates.
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Old Sat Dec 26, 2009, 07:03pm
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.... and 4-12-4

While the ball remains live a loose ball always remains in control of the team whose player last had control, unless it is a try or tap for goal.
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Old Sun Dec 27, 2009, 02:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjones1 View Post
.... and 4-12-4

While the ball remains live a loose ball always remains in control of the team whose player last had control, unless it is a try or tap for goal.
but not the case for this OP and a throw in , correct ? ball is not live , and no team control yet.
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Old Sun Dec 27, 2009, 02:14pm
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Originally Posted by Upward ref View Post
but not the case for this OP and a throw in , correct ? ball is not live , and no team control yet.
Once the ball has been handed to the thrower, the ball is live. But that is not necessarily relevant to a Team Control Foul being called. You can only have Team Control once team control has been established. The ball being in the air after the release of the ball is not team control yet. A player from one of the teams has to grab the ball first.

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Old Sun Dec 27, 2009, 02:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Once the ball has been handed to the thrower, the ball is live. But that is not necessarily relevant to a Team Control Foul being called. You can only have Team Control once team control has been established. The ball being in the air after the release of the ball is not team control yet. A player from one of the teams has to grab the ball first.

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i'll settle for half right ! don't worry i'm going straight to my rule books after this ; a live ball and the clock not running ?
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Old Sun Dec 27, 2009, 02:44pm
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Originally Posted by Upward ref View Post
i'll settle for half right ! don't worry i'm going straight to my rule books after this ; a live ball and the clock not running ?
Whether the clock is running or not has no effect on whether the ball is live. For example:

The ball is tossed by the referee to start the game. The ball is live, the clock does not start until the ball is legally touched.

A shot is in the air when a foul is whistled. The ball is live, the clock stopped when the whistle was blown.

After a timeout, A1 has the ball for a throw-in. The ball is live, the clock does not start until the ball is legally touched after it's been released by the thrower.

A shot is in the air when the horn sounds. The ball is live, the clock stopped when the horn sounded.
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Old Sun Dec 27, 2009, 02:47pm
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Originally Posted by Upward ref View Post
i'll settle for half right ! don't worry i'm going straight to my rule books after this ; a live ball and the clock not running ?
Along with BktBallRef's list, there are free throws. Live ball, clock not running. Happens all the time.

You can also have a dead ball with the clock running.
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Old Sun Dec 27, 2009, 03:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
Whether the clock is running or not has no effect on whether the ball is live.

The ball is tossed by the referee to start the game. The ball is live, the clock does not start until the ball is legally touched.

A shot is in the air when a foul is whistled. The ball is live, the clock stopped when the whistle was blown.

After a timeout, A1 has the ball for a throw-in. The ball is live, the clock does not start until the ball is legally touched after it's been released by the thrower.

A shot is in the air when the horn sounds. The ball is live, the clock stopped when the horn sounded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Free throws. Live ball, clock not running.
Thanks guys. Someone should "sticky thread" these for a while. Have BktBallRef and Snaqwells missed any?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
You can also have a dead ball with the clock running.
Few seconds after a successful field goal before the ball is at the disposal of the new throwin team. Do I get a prize?
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Old Mon Dec 28, 2009, 02:42pm
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It is interesting (to me anyway) to note that of the three ways that exist to get a dead ball live (throw-in, free throw, jump ball), all three make the ball live before the clock starts. Often the ball is live for several seconds before the clock starts. In the case of multiple free throws, the ball can cycle between live and dead multiple times without the clock starting at all.

As BBR and Snaqs have also pointed out, the ball can remain live after the clock stops. And the ball can be dead while the clock is running.

It is incorrect to equate the clock starting/stopping with the ball becoming live/dead.
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Old Mon Dec 28, 2009, 02:49pm
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Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle View Post
As BBR and Snaqs have also pointed out, the ball can remain live after the clock stops.
Too bad we all can't remain live after our clock stops.
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