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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 12, 2007, 03:56pm
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Team control foul?

Here's the scenario...
Summer tournament, HS varsity boys game.

2 on 1 fast break, A1 sees A2 trailing behind and lays the ball off the glass for A2 to dunk. B1 however jumps to retrieve the ball after it hit the glass and is fouled by A2 who goes through B1 in his attempt to dunk.

I called the foul on A2, and not thinking things through, we shot bonus FT's as that foul was the seventh on team A for the half.

A buddy asked me for an explanation, and after thinking it over, we agreed it was a team control foul, thus no FT's should have been awarded. I knew it was a pass attempt so team control was still in effect, right?

Anyone confirm or deny? NFHS and NCAA opinions welcomed.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 12, 2007, 04:05pm
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I would not call this a team control foul. I would consider this to be a shot attempt and move on. A1 threw the ball at the basket and you know have a rebound. This is the very reason we do not call a double dribble off the backboard shooting at their basket. Where this is in a rulebook is not going to change the fact that calling this a team control foul would not be the right thing to do in my opinion. You are making a call that everyone can likely agree with into a complicated issue.

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 12, 2007, 04:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ref_in_Rehab
Here's the scenario...
Summer tournament, HS varsity boys game.

2 on 1 fast break, A1 sees A2 trailing behind and lays the ball off the glass for A2 to dunk. B1 however jumps to retrieve the ball after it hit the glass and is fouled by A2 who goes through B1 in his attempt to dunk.

I called the foul on A2, and not thinking things through, we shot bonus FT's as that foul was the seventh on team A for the half.

A buddy asked me for an explanation, and after thinking it over, we agreed it was a team control foul, thus no FT's should have been awarded. I knew it was a pass attempt so team control was still in effect, right?

Anyone confirm or deny? NFHS and NCAA opinions welcomed.
If that was clearly a pass, then team control was still for team A.

It's a common mistake, especially when the defender tips the ball off the dribbler, who fouls the defender when trying to retrieve the loose ball. Team control is still for the dribbler's team, no bonus free throws.

This is a point where NFHS, NCAA and FIBA agree (except there is no team control on a throw in for NFHS).

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 12, 2007, 04:37pm
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This is one of those HTBT situation. If B-1 had possession of the ball and A-2 still attempted to dunk through B-1 I have a common foul on A-2 and we are shooting the bonus.

Now, if B-1 did not have possession and during his attempt to retrieve the ball is fouled by A-2. I can see the team control aspect too. No bonus OOB on endline for team b throw in.

I also understand where JRut is coming from keep it simple shot attempt foul B shoot bonus.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 12, 2007, 05:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
I would not call this a team control foul. I would consider this to be a shot attempt and move on. A1 threw the ball at the basket and you now have a rebound.
Bingo. If you have to guess whether it's a shot or a pass, you're guessing.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 12, 2007, 05:08pm
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If the toss off the backboard had gone into the basket after the foul by A2 was committed would you score the points?

If not, then it was a pass and the foul is a team control foul. If so, then it was a try for goal and the foul would result in awarding merited bonus FTs.

BTW how many points should be scored for this toss?
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 12, 2007, 05:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
1) If the toss off the backboard had gone into the basket after the foul by A2 was committed would you score the points?

2) If not, then it was a pass and the foul is a team control foul.
1) Of course, if the ball was never touched after A1 threw it off the glass. Now whatinhell has that got to do with anything?

2) Congratulations for being a mindreader. Btw, I take it that you've never heard of this brand new basketball concept that's just out. It's called a missed shot.
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Old Tue Jun 12, 2007, 05:36pm
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Btw, I take it that you've never heard of this brand new basketball concept that's just out. It's called a JUDGMENT CALL.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 12, 2007, 05:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
Btw, I take it that you've never heard of this brand new basketball concept that's just out. It's called a JUDGMENT CALL.
Um yeah. And you've taken the JUDGMENT completely OUT of the call by saying that it's a pass EVERY single time and it MUST be called a TC foul.

That was my point.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 12, 2007, 06:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
If the toss off the backboard had gone into the basket after the foul by A2 was committed would you score the points?

If not, then it was a pass and the foul is a team control foul. If so, then it was a try for goal and the foul would result in awarding merited bonus FTs.

BTW how many points should be scored for this toss?
Where did the toss originate?
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 12, 2007, 07:12pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M Guy
Where did the toss originate?
From behind the 3pt line!
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Old Tue Jun 12, 2007, 07:35pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
From behind the 3pt line!
I would've answered quicker, except both my hands were in the air.
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Old Wed Jun 13, 2007, 01:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M Guy
I would've answered quicker, except both my hands were in the air.
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Old Wed Jun 13, 2007, 01:53pm
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Originally Posted by M&M Guy
I would've answered quicker, except both my hands were in the air.
Are you French?
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Old Wed Jun 13, 2007, 02:17pm
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Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Are you French?
That would explain a lot!!
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