Foul or No Foul?

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by imgrund

I figured the call should not have been made for the following reasons:

1) The ref under the net should never be making this call. Doesn't the other ref have a better view of the play?

The ref "under the net" was in perfect position to make the call.

Originally Posted by imgrund

2) When the score if 57-57 with under 20 seconds to go, unless there's blood or an egregious foul, I'd never blow my whistle!

Which is a good reason to not quit your day job.

Originally Posted by imgrund

If anything, in a case like this, if I were the other ref, I would have overruled the ref under the net and either called 'jump ball' (as the ball was pinned) or 'inadvertent whistle'

Am I watching the same video? Where was the ball pinned? Just making up s**t to suit your biased view of a play is not generally part of officiating ANY sport. If I were you, I'd just concentrate on getting my order right at the drive-thru.

[jallen]

not much to argue about, the call was right and solid. However, the ref should have done a better job of selling it. He knows how much time there is, he looks up at 18 sec. We have an expression here, "referee the key", he is way to far out. those are things an evaluator should deal with.
the call was solid tho, pass on it means you decide the game. The kids worked hard to penetrate the key and get a shot off, they deserve the foul call

[fullor30]

yawn........foul.

[imgrund]

Bad Zebra - Obviously you're unfamiliar with the term 'pinned' since it's not in the NFHS rule book or case book. Try to think a little outside the box.

BktBallRef: One official may not OVERRULE the other? Tell me then what happens if 1 official calls block and one calls charge and each is 100% adamant about their call and unwilling to change? According to your logic it's a stalemate and the game is stopped right there.

And you are definitely one confused and ignorant official. A jump/held ball is indicated by the 'jump-ball' signal. Are you that ignorant of NFHS terminology? I can already tell you're one of those refs that wants the focus
of any game on himself. See http://www.nfhs.org/Workarea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=2867 for more
info on basic terminology. Apparently scorers and timers know more than yoursef.

[imgrund]

And I agree with Jallen - I don't so much disagree with the call as I do the positioning of the official. "Referee the key".

Remember: You are watching the call from a better angle than the lead ref. From the lead ref's angle, is that a foul? Can you see the contact from his/her
vantage point? Or are you going by your hypothesis that a guard can't pin a centre?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by imgrund

Bad Zebra - Obviously you're unfamiliar with the term 'pinned' since it's not in the NFHS rule book or case book. Try to think a little outside the box.

BktBallRef: One official may not OVERRULE the other? Tell me then what happens if 1 official calls block and one calls charge and each is 100% adamant about their call and unwilling to change? According to your logic it's a stalemate and the game is stopped right there.

And you are definitely one confused and ignorant official. A jump/held ball is indicated by the 'jump-ball' signal. Are you that ignorant of NFHS terminology? I can already tell you're one of those refs that wants the focus
of any game on himself. See http://www.nfhs.org/Workarea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=2867 for more
info on basic terminology. Apparently scorers and timers know more than yoursef.

Wow, bad grammar and bad spelling.

BZ's point is that the ball wasn't pinned. After the shooter's arms get raked, it falls loose. It's not the term, it's the facts you're struggling with; but that would hurt your argument so you should probably ignore it.

And the rules very specifically state an official may not overrule another official. Your ignorance of this fact isn't surprising, however. And in your little hypothetical play, the solution is a double foul. In spite of your obvious belief that officials are egomaniacal alpha males, that situation wouldn't happen.

Originally Posted by imgrund

And I agree with Jallen - I don't so much disagree with the call as I do the positioning of the official. "Referee the key".
Remember: You are watching the call from a better angle than the lead ref. From the lead ref's angle, is that a foul? Can you see the contact from his/her
vantage point? Or are you going by your hypothesis that a guard can't pin a centre?

Actually, the lead official (that's what we call "the official under the net") has a great view, but I addressed this already.

As for your the paragraph in blue, you're contradicting yourself. Allow me to quote you:

Originally Posted by imgrund

2) When the score if 57-57 with under 20 seconds to go, unless there's blood or an egregious foul, I'd never blow my whistle!

If anything, in a case like this, if I were the other ref, I would have overruled the ref under the net and either called 'jump ball' (as the ball was pinned) or 'inadvertent whistle'.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by imgrund

And I agree with Jallen - I don't so much disagree with the call as I do the positioning of the official. "Referee the key".

Remember: You are watching the call from a better angle than the lead ref. From the lead ref's angle, is that a foul? Can you see the contact from his/her
vantage point? Or are you going by your hypothesis that a guard can't pin a centre?

I actually teach mechanics for my state. What you said here is so false it is not even funny. If you do not like the positioning of the official, hire another official to work the game so you have 3 officials instead of two. Obviously this talent is too good to have only two officials on the play. Secondly, the positioning of the official is the best you can get in this situation. He was where you would want someone to be. The problem is with 2 person crews, is an officials has to cover so much more. This was an obvious foul because the defender swung his arms and got his arms instead of the ball. Whether the ball was pinned or not is not relevant to this play or even in high school rules. Then again you called everyone here ignorant and you do not even know this little fact of the rules.

Peace

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by imgrund

Bad Zebra - Obviously you're unfamiliar with the term 'pinned' since it's not in the NFHS rule book or case book. Try to think a little outside the box.

BktBallRef: One official may not OVERRULE the other? Tell me then what happens if 1 official calls block and one calls charge and each is 100% adamant about their call and unwilling to change? According to your logic it's a stalemate and the game is stopped right there.

And you are definitely one confused and ignorant official. A jump/held ball is indicated by the 'jump-ball' signal. Are you that ignorant of NFHS terminology? I can already tell you're one of those refs that wants the focus
of any game on himself. See http://www.nfhs.org/Workarea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=2867 for more
info on basic terminology. Apparently scorers and timers know more than yoursef.

Good grief I know what the fanspeak pinning is about and there's no pinning going on here, this is an easy call.

And I can tell you about a block and a charge...no stalemate its called a double foul. Are you JAR in disguise?

You had your chance now go away.

[SAK]

Originally Posted by eyezen

You had your chance now go away.

I second

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by eyezen

And I can tell you about a block and a charge...no stalemate its called a double foul. Are you JAR in disguise?

No disguises here. The play he describes, where each official is adamant about his own call, is the one time I see where double foul is your only option, even though it still doesn't make sense.

[jkohls]

Is there really a question here? Easy call.

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by imgrund

And you are definitely one confused and ignorant official.

Apparently scorers and timers know more than yoursef.

Where else can you get this type of entertainment?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

Where else can you get this type of entertainment?

It's almost as good as March.

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by imgrund

Bad Zebra - Obviously you're unfamiliar with the term 'pinned' since it's not in the NFHS rule book or case book. Try to think a little outside the box.

OK Enlightened One. Bring us out of the dark abyss of ignorance and tell us whether by "pinned" you mean HELD BALL between two players or "pinned" against the backboard on a blocked shot attempt.

In either case, there's no evidence in the video. But we're glad that you stopped by for this teaching moment and shared your obviously vast officiating expertise. We'll all be better for it and sure to make the right call the next time we do a game that you're attending.

[TimTaylor]

imgrund,

I'm in complete agreement with the majority here:
1. This was clearly a foul and an easy one to call at that
2. It was in the L's primary area and he was correctly positioned to call it

From your original and subsequent posts, you clearly have no conceptual basis in reality when it comes to either the practice or principles of officiating, and your apparent knowledge of the rules of the game of basketball isn't much better. I could itemize, but others here have already done so quite accurately and succinctly so there's no point in making this post longer than necessary.

The bottom line is that you came to an official's discussion site with a question, apparently expecting justification and support for your preconceived opinions. You were given honest, knowledgeable and correct answers by officials with many years of experience. Instead of being upset that they didn't agree with you, try learning from the information provided to help expand your knowledge and understanding of the game. If you come here you will get honest answers - if you're looking for sympathy, go find a "fan boy" site.