The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 18, 2009, 07:30pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6
Foul or No Foul?

4th quarter, tie game. Do you agree or disagree with this call?

YouTube - Campionship
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 18, 2009, 08:02pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6
I figured the call should not have been made for the following reasons:

1) The ref under the net should never be making this call. Doesn't the other ref have a better view of the play?

2) When the score if 57-57 with under 20 seconds to go, unless there's blood or an egregious foul, I'd never blow my whistle!

If anything, in a case like this, if I were the other ref, I would have overruled the ref under the net and either called 'jump ball' (as the ball was pinned) or 'inadvertent whistle'.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 18, 2009, 08:15pm
Aleve Titles to Others
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: East Westchester of the Southern Conference
Posts: 5,381
Send a message via AIM to 26 Year Gap
Quote:
Originally Posted by imgrund View Post
I figured the call should not have been made for the following reasons:

1) The ref under the net should never be making this call. Doesn't the other ref have a better view of the play?

2) When the score if 57-57 with under 20 seconds to go, unless there's blood or an egregious foul, I'd never blow my whistle!

If anything, in a case like this, if I were the other ref, I would have overruled the ref under the net and either called 'jump ball' (as the ball was pinned) or 'inadvertent whistle'.
What would you do if you were a fanboy?
__________________
Never hit a piñata if you see hornets flying out of it.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 18, 2009, 08:47pm
certified Hot Mom tester
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: only in my own mind, such as it is
Posts: 12,918
Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by imgrund View Post
2) When the score if 57-57 with under 20 seconds to go, unless there's blood or an egregious foul, I'd never blow my whistle!
So you would rather decide the outcome of a game as opposed to letting the player's actions decide the outcome of a game?

Please give rulebook or casebook example to support this policy.
__________________
Yom HaShoah
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 18, 2009, 08:56pm
Archaic Power Monger
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,983
To salvage something useful from this, what does everybody think about the contact after the driving offensive player passes off the ball?
__________________
Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 18, 2009, 09:28pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,616
Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by imgrund View Post
I figured the call should not have been made for the following reasons:

1) The ref under the net should never be making this call. Doesn't the other ref have a better view of the play?

2) When the score if 57-57 with under 20 seconds to go, unless there's blood or an egregious foul, I'd never blow my whistle!

If anything, in a case like this, if I were the other ref, I would have overruled the ref under the net and either called 'jump ball' (as the ball was pinned) or 'inadvertent whistle'.
I'm going to assume you are not an official, since you're clueless with regard to everything you wrote.

1) Officials have primary areas of coverage. The foul occurred in the Lead official's primary. The Lead is the official on the end line. It was his call.

2) This is a foul. To allow the defender to rake both arms of the shooter and not call the foul is an injustice to the shooter. The defender made a bad play. Neither the shooter nor his team should not be penalized for it, especially when the defender is beaten and #55 clearly has an advantageous position.

Further:

One official CANNOT overrule another.

This isn't a "jump" ball. A jump ball occurs when the referee tosses the ball between to opponents to start the game or overtime.

This is also not a held ball. The contact is on the shooter's arms. It is not on the ball, nor is the ball ever pinned anywhere.

There is no inadvertent whistle in basketball. That's a football term. There is no accidental whistle here. A foul was called, and called correctly I might add.

Here endeth the lesson.
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 18, 2009, 09:29pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welpe View Post
To salvage something useful from this, what does everybody think about the contact after the driving offensive player passes off the ball?
Incidental. The defender goes straight up, the dribbler does not displace him. There is no advantage/disadvantage.
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 18, 2009, 09:36pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
I'd say it was an outstanding call, but frankly it was an easy call. Any ref who wouldn't make that call just because the game is close should hang up his whistle and announce to the world that he is a coward.

Any ref who would try to overrule the calling official on this would never work this level of basketball, so that's not really relevant.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 18, 2009, 10:10pm
Official & Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by imgrund View Post
I figured the call should not have been made for the following reasons:

1) The ref under the net should never be making this call. Doesn't the other ref have a better view of the play?
The ref "under the net" was in perfect position to make the call.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imgrund View Post
2) When the score if 57-57 with under 20 seconds to go, unless there's blood or an egregious foul, I'd never blow my whistle!
Which is a good reason to not quit your day job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imgrund View Post
If anything, in a case like this, if I were the other ref, I would have overruled the ref under the net and either called 'jump ball' (as the ball was pinned) or 'inadvertent whistle'
Am I watching the same video? Where was the ball pinned? Just making up s**t to suit your biased view of a play is not generally part of officiating ANY sport. If I were you, I'd just concentrate on getting my order right at the drive-thru.
__________________
Calling it both ways...since 1999

Last edited by Bad Zebra; Fri Dec 18, 2009 at 10:17pm.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 18, 2009, 10:41pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 50
right call

not much to argue about, the call was right and solid. However, the ref should have done a better job of selling it. He knows how much time there is, he looks up at 18 sec. We have an expression here, "referee the key", he is way to far out. those are things an evaluator should deal with.
the call was solid tho, pass on it means you decide the game. The kids worked hard to penetrate the key and get a shot off, they deserve the foul call
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 18, 2009, 11:12pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,842
yawn........foul.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 18, 2009, 11:27pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6
Bad Zebra - Obviously you're unfamiliar with the term 'pinned' since it's not in the NFHS rule book or case book. Try to think a little outside the box.

BktBallRef: One official may not OVERRULE the other? Tell me then what happens if 1 official calls block and one calls charge and each is 100% adamant about their call and unwilling to change? According to your logic it's a stalemate and the game is stopped right there.

And you are definitely one confused and ignorant official. A jump/held ball is indicated by the 'jump-ball' signal. Are you that ignorant of NFHS terminology? I can already tell you're one of those refs that wants the focus
of any game on himself. See http://www.nfhs.org/Workarea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=2867 for more
info on basic terminology. Apparently scorers and timers know more than yoursef.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 18, 2009, 11:32pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6
And I agree with Jallen - I don't so much disagree with the call as I do the positioning of the official. "Referee the key".

Remember: You are watching the call from a better angle than the lead ref. From the lead ref's angle, is that a foul? Can you see the contact from his/her
vantage point? Or are you going by your hypothesis that a guard can't pin a centre?
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 18, 2009, 11:37pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Lincoln Co, Missouri
Posts: 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by imgrund View Post
Bad Zebra - Obviously you're unfamiliar with the term 'pinned' since it's not in the NFHS rule book or case book. Try to think a little outside the box.

BktBallRef: One official may not OVERRULE the other? Tell me then what happens if 1 official calls block and one calls charge and each is 100% adamant about their call and unwilling to change? According to your logic it's a stalemate and the game is stopped right there.

And you are definitely one confused and ignorant official. A jump/held ball is indicated by the 'jump-ball' signal. Are you that ignorant of NFHS terminology? I can already tell you're one of those refs that wants the focus
of any game on himself. See http://www.nfhs.org/Workarea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=2867 for more
info on basic terminology. Apparently scorers and timers know more than yoursef.
Good grief I know what the fanspeak pinning is about and there's no pinning going on here, this is an easy call.

And I can tell you about a block and a charge...no stalemate its called a double foul. Are you JAR in disguise?

You had your chance now go away.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 19, 2009, 12:00am
SAK SAK is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyezen View Post

You had your chance now go away.
I second
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Foul where distance gained prior to foul wwcfoa43 Football 15 Sun Feb 20, 2011 06:04pm
Can you just call a team foul if you are not sure who the foul is on? Diebler biggravy Basketball 18 Sun Dec 13, 2009 07:20pm
Foul tip caught, foul ball, or out? bossman72 Baseball 9 Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:03pm
offensive foul, defensive foul or no call? thereluctantref Basketball 2 Mon Mar 13, 2006 01:12pm
Anger over referee's foul calls triggers a bigger foul after game BktBallRef Basketball 10 Mon Mar 06, 2006 02:36am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:49am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1