Foul or No Foul?

[imgrund]

I figured the call should not have been made for the following reasons:

1) The ref under the net should never be making this call. Doesn't the other ref have a better view of the play?

2) When the score if 57-57 with under 20 seconds to go, unless there's blood or an egregious foul, I'd never blow my whistle!

If anything, in a case like this, if I were the other ref, I would have overruled the ref under the net and either called 'jump ball' (as the ball was pinned) or 'inadvertent whistle'.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by imgrund

I figured the call should not have been made for the following reasons:

1) The ref under the net should never be making this call. Doesn't the other ref have a better view of the play?

2) When the score if 57-57 with under 20 seconds to go, unless there's blood or an egregious foul, I'd never blow my whistle!

If anything, in a case like this, if I were the other ref, I would have overruled the ref under the net and either called 'jump ball' (as the ball was pinned) or 'inadvertent whistle'.

What would you do if you were a fanboy?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by imgrund

2) When the score if 57-57 with under 20 seconds to go, unless there's blood or an egregious foul, I'd never blow my whistle!

So you would rather decide the outcome of a game as opposed to letting the player's actions decide the outcome of a game?

Please give rulebook or casebook example to support this policy.

[Welpe]

To salvage something useful from this, what does everybody think about the contact after the driving offensive player passes off the ball?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Welpe

To salvage something useful from this, what does everybody think about the contact after the driving offensive player passes off the ball?

Incidental. The defender goes straight up, the dribbler does not displace him. There is no advantage/disadvantage.

[representing]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Incidental. The defender goes straight up, the dribbler does not displace him. There is no advantage/disadvantage.

agreed

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by imgrund

I figured the call should not have been made for the following reasons:

1) The ref under the net should never be making this call. Doesn't the other ref have a better view of the play?

2) When the score if 57-57 with under 20 seconds to go, unless there's blood or an egregious foul, I'd never blow my whistle!

If anything, in a case like this, if I were the other ref, I would have overruled the ref under the net and either called 'jump ball' (as the ball was pinned) or 'inadvertent whistle'.

I'm going to assume you are not an official, since you're clueless with regard to everything you wrote.

1) Officials have primary areas of coverage. The foul occurred in the Lead official's primary. The Lead is the official on the end line. It was his call.

2) This is a foul. To allow the defender to rake both arms of the shooter and not call the foul is an injustice to the shooter. The defender made a bad play. Neither the shooter nor his team should not be penalized for it, especially when the defender is beaten and #55 clearly has an advantageous position.

Further:

One official CANNOT overrule another.

This isn't a "jump" ball. A jump ball occurs when the referee tosses the ball between to opponents to start the game or overtime.

This is also not a held ball. The contact is on the shooter's arms. It is not on the ball, nor is the ball ever pinned anywhere.

There is no inadvertent whistle in basketball. That's a football term. There is no accidental whistle here. A foul was called, and called correctly I might add.

Here endeth the lesson.

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by imgrund

I figured the call should not have been made for the following reasons:

1) The ref under the net should never be making this call. Doesn't the other ref have a better view of the play?

The ref "under the net" was in perfect position to make the call.

Originally Posted by imgrund

2) When the score if 57-57 with under 20 seconds to go, unless there's blood or an egregious foul, I'd never blow my whistle!

Which is a good reason to not quit your day job.

Originally Posted by imgrund

If anything, in a case like this, if I were the other ref, I would have overruled the ref under the net and either called 'jump ball' (as the ball was pinned) or 'inadvertent whistle'

Am I watching the same video? Where was the ball pinned? Just making up s**t to suit your biased view of a play is not generally part of officiating ANY sport. If I were you, I'd just concentrate on getting my order right at the drive-thru.

[jallen]

not much to argue about, the call was right and solid. However, the ref should have done a better job of selling it. He knows how much time there is, he looks up at 18 sec. We have an expression here, "referee the key", he is way to far out. those are things an evaluator should deal with.
the call was solid tho, pass on it means you decide the game. The kids worked hard to penetrate the key and get a shot off, they deserve the foul call

[fullor30]

yawn........foul.

[imgrund]

Bad Zebra - Obviously you're unfamiliar with the term 'pinned' since it's not in the NFHS rule book or case book. Try to think a little outside the box.

BktBallRef: One official may not OVERRULE the other? Tell me then what happens if 1 official calls block and one calls charge and each is 100% adamant about their call and unwilling to change? According to your logic it's a stalemate and the game is stopped right there.

And you are definitely one confused and ignorant official. A jump/held ball is indicated by the 'jump-ball' signal. Are you that ignorant of NFHS terminology? I can already tell you're one of those refs that wants the focus
of any game on himself. See http://www.nfhs.org/Workarea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=2867 for more
info on basic terminology. Apparently scorers and timers know more than yoursef.

[imgrund]

And I agree with Jallen - I don't so much disagree with the call as I do the positioning of the official. "Referee the key".

Remember: You are watching the call from a better angle than the lead ref. From the lead ref's angle, is that a foul? Can you see the contact from his/her
vantage point? Or are you going by your hypothesis that a guard can't pin a centre?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by imgrund

Bad Zebra - Obviously you're unfamiliar with the term 'pinned' since it's not in the NFHS rule book or case book. Try to think a little outside the box.

BktBallRef: One official may not OVERRULE the other? Tell me then what happens if 1 official calls block and one calls charge and each is 100% adamant about their call and unwilling to change? According to your logic it's a stalemate and the game is stopped right there.

And you are definitely one confused and ignorant official. A jump/held ball is indicated by the 'jump-ball' signal. Are you that ignorant of NFHS terminology? I can already tell you're one of those refs that wants the focus
of any game on himself. See http://www.nfhs.org/Workarea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=2867 for more
info on basic terminology. Apparently scorers and timers know more than yoursef.

Wow, bad grammar and bad spelling.

BZ's point is that the ball wasn't pinned. After the shooter's arms get raked, it falls loose. It's not the term, it's the facts you're struggling with; but that would hurt your argument so you should probably ignore it.

And the rules very specifically state an official may not overrule another official. Your ignorance of this fact isn't surprising, however. And in your little hypothetical play, the solution is a double foul. In spite of your obvious belief that officials are egomaniacal alpha males, that situation wouldn't happen.

Originally Posted by imgrund

And I agree with Jallen - I don't so much disagree with the call as I do the positioning of the official. "Referee the key".
Remember: You are watching the call from a better angle than the lead ref. From the lead ref's angle, is that a foul? Can you see the contact from his/her
vantage point? Or are you going by your hypothesis that a guard can't pin a centre?

Actually, the lead official (that's what we call "the official under the net") has a great view, but I addressed this already.

As for your the paragraph in blue, you're contradicting yourself. Allow me to quote you:

Originally Posted by imgrund

2) When the score if 57-57 with under 20 seconds to go, unless there's blood or an egregious foul, I'd never blow my whistle!

If anything, in a case like this, if I were the other ref, I would have overruled the ref under the net and either called 'jump ball' (as the ball was pinned) or 'inadvertent whistle'.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by imgrund

And I agree with Jallen - I don't so much disagree with the call as I do the positioning of the official. "Referee the key".

Remember: You are watching the call from a better angle than the lead ref. From the lead ref's angle, is that a foul? Can you see the contact from his/her
vantage point? Or are you going by your hypothesis that a guard can't pin a centre?

I actually teach mechanics for my state. What you said here is so false it is not even funny. If you do not like the positioning of the official, hire another official to work the game so you have 3 officials instead of two. Obviously this talent is too good to have only two officials on the play. Secondly, the positioning of the official is the best you can get in this situation. He was where you would want someone to be. The problem is with 2 person crews, is an officials has to cover so much more. This was an obvious foul because the defender swung his arms and got his arms instead of the ball. Whether the ball was pinned or not is not relevant to this play or even in high school rules. Then again you called everyone here ignorant and you do not even know this little fact of the rules.

Peace

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by imgrund

Bad Zebra - Obviously you're unfamiliar with the term 'pinned' since it's not in the NFHS rule book or case book. Try to think a little outside the box.

BktBallRef: One official may not OVERRULE the other? Tell me then what happens if 1 official calls block and one calls charge and each is 100% adamant about their call and unwilling to change? According to your logic it's a stalemate and the game is stopped right there.

And you are definitely one confused and ignorant official. A jump/held ball is indicated by the 'jump-ball' signal. Are you that ignorant of NFHS terminology? I can already tell you're one of those refs that wants the focus
of any game on himself. See http://www.nfhs.org/Workarea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=2867 for more
info on basic terminology. Apparently scorers and timers know more than yoursef.

Good grief I know what the fanspeak pinning is about and there's no pinning going on here, this is an easy call.

And I can tell you about a block and a charge...no stalemate its called a double foul. Are you JAR in disguise?

You had your chance now go away.