Elbow Pad

[jdmara]

{Don't have my books with me} Are elbow pads illegal equipment? I always thought they were but in the (college) game I'm watching, one of the players is wearing a sleeve with an apparent hex pad integrated. Just curious

I'm concerned with FED

-Josh

[representing]

Originally Posted by jdmara

{Don't have my books with me} Are elbow pads illegal equipment? I always thought they were but in the (college) game I'm watching, one of the players is wearing a sleeve with an apparent hex pad integrated. Just curious

I'm concerned with FED

-Josh

FED???

I don't know what it is in college ball, but in high school under the NFHS 3-5-2:

a. A Guard, cast or brace made of hard and unyielding leather, plaster, pliable (soft) plastic, metal or any other hard substance may not be worn on the elbow, hand, finger/thumb, wrist or forearm; even though covered with soft padding.

b and c omitted

d. must be worn for medical reasons.

A sleeve is not an illegal material, but it must be worn for medical reasons, accompanied by a doctor's note saying it was prescribed to wear this during sporting events.

Not sure what the hex pattern would be for, could be just a cushion inside because she probably injured her elbow and wants to protect it from excessive contact to avoid further, serious injuries.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by representing

she probably injured her elbow .

Are you watching the same game or did you just assume he'd be watching a game with gurrllllzzzz playing?

[representing]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Are you watching the same game or did you just assume he'd be watching a game with gurrllllzzzz playing?

I'm psychic

nah, I thought he said it was a women's college game in one way or another for some reason and I just said "she". But yes, I would usually say he/she in this kind of situation.

Is it a women's college game?

[JRutledge]

No, they are not illegal at any level. Not unless they are hard and abrasive material. But a traditional pad has always been legal. Players just do not wear them anymore like they once did.

Peace

[representing]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

No, they are not illegal at any level. Not unless they are hard and abrasive material. But a traditional pad has always been legal. Players just do not wear them anymore like they once did.

Peace

Allen Iverson-style sleeves are illegal in NFHS unless prescribed by a doctor, and the player or coach has an actual doctor's note saying that he/she must wear one.

Nothing covering the elbow or above is allowed without a doctor's note for medical reasons only.

Also, as for hard items, they are allowed on the upper arm or shoulder but must be padded. They are not allowed at all on the elbow, hand, finger/thumb, wrist or forearm. Not even with soft padding.

You should read up on Rule 3, Section 5, Article 2(a through d).

[Adam]

So, which rule says a doctor's note is required for a compression sleeve?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

So, which rule says a doctor's note is required for a compression sleeve?

As you already know, there is no such rule.

I believe that the NFHS only requires a note from a doctor if a player that has been unconscious wants to return to the game. Otherwise, NFHS rules don't say anything about a note for any other reason. In some cases the NFHS states that some equipment, for example head coverings, must be approved by the state association, but the NFHS doesn't say that the approval must be in writing, or be available to the official. Now state associations may have a different set of guidelines, but that is separate from any NFHS rules. We may have fifty different sets of guidelines.

[representing]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

So, which rule says a doctor's note is required for a compression sleeve?

the part that says "must be worn for medical purposes". Players must prove that they are worn for medical purposes and not as an adornment, thus a medical note must be in accompany with this situation.

Now that you said that though, it is possible each state association have their own method for proving it is worn for medical reasons. I know at least in PIAA we have to see a doctor's note of some sort that says items such as compression sleeves must be worn for medical purposes. Not sure how it is if it is different in other state's association or if this was something that the NFHS said.

[Adam]

Some states want you to ask, some states want you to assume, some states want you to see a note. Here, we just ask. "Is that for a medical reason?" An affirmative answer is all I need, no Dr. note required. We were told the same thing when it came to religious attire. Leave it alone and contact the state office.

As long as it's not a safety issue, of course.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by representing

Allen Iverson-style sleeves are illegal in NFHS unless prescribed by a doctor, and the player or coach has an actual doctor's note saying that he/she must wear one.

Nothing covering the elbow or above is allowed without a doctor's note for medical reasons only.

Not true. Those sleeves are completely legal and to be assumed to be worn for medical purposes. There is nothing in the rule that says a doctor must subscribe them to be worn or better yet, nothing that says a note must be produced. Unless your jurisdiction wants this, you do not even have to verify this information.

Originally Posted by representing

Also, as for hard items, they are allowed on the upper arm or shoulder but must be padded. They are not allowed at all on the elbow, hand, finger/thumb, wrist or forearm. Not even with soft padding.

You should read up on Rule 3, Section 5, Article 2(a through d).

The only things that cannot be worn in the elbow are wristbands (outside of this discussion) that I have ever seen made clear in the past two years. Wearing and elbow pad (designed by for the elbow) is perfectly legal. There are also some descriptions of this in the Simplified and Illustrated book. You either did not read the rule correctly or you are assuming what is illegal.

Peace

[representing]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Some states want you to ask, some states want you to assume, some states want you to see a note. Here, we just ask. "Is that for a medical reason?" An affirmative answer is all I need, no Dr. note required. We were told the same thing when it came to religious attire. Leave it alone and contact the state office.

As long as it's not a safety issue, of course.

In PIAA I know we were told you must ask to see the doctor's note, but if the coach says something like "we filed it with the state and our AD has it in his office" then I can say "ok coach, I'll take your word for it" and then just bring it up with the chapter to call the state and verify. At that point, it's out of our hands and PIAA will do what it wants to do if it turns out the coach was lying.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by representing

the part that says "must be worn for medical purposes". Players must prove that they are worn for medical purposes and not as an adornment, thus a medical note must be in accompany with this situation.

If a trainer gives them something to put on their arm, that does not count?

You will not find any part of this rule that says a note is required by a doctor. The only part in basketball rules that require a doctor's note is the one you need if a player is unconscious. If a player is not unconscious, there is no note needed. That has absolutely nothing to do with this issue and what is worn on the arm. In football we need a note to verify that a players is allowed to wear a cast, but that rule requires specific specifications and says what kind of doctor (MD/DO is needed) can and cannot provide that information. So in other words a "trainer" on their own cannot write and note and say a player is cleared to play.

You are reading too much into the rule and what is required.

Peace

[representing]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Not true. Those sleeves are completely legal and to be assumed to be worn for medical purposes. There is nothing in the rule that says a doctor must subscribe them to be worn or better yet, nothing that says a note must be produced. Unless your jurisdiction wants this, you do not even have to verify this information.

You're partially right. While it should be assumed that it is for medical purposes, that's the only reason for it to be legal. BUT, if it is used for adornment, then it is illegal. Those arm sleeves are popular on the market ever since Allen Iverson has started wearing one when he was first with the Sixers.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The only things that cannot be worn in the elbow are wristbands (outside of this discussion) that I have ever seen made clear in the past two years. Wearing and elbow pad (designed by for the elbow) is perfectly legal. There are also some descriptions of this in the Simplified and Illustrated book. You either did not read the rule correctly or you are assuming what is illegal.

Peace

Ok, I'm not so sure about elbow pads anymore. I don't think "pads" fit under "guards, casts, braces and compression sleeves" under rule 3.5.2. However, it doesn't say anything about whether pads are legal or not. So, I I couldn't tell you whether they are legal or not. For now, I will take your word until I talk with the chapter rules interpreter at our next meeting.

But like it was said earlier, elbow pads are very rare, I don't think I've seen an elbow pad in the 6 years I've been officiating. I have seen knee pads, but only in youth leagues on floors that are old, wooden and hard, and will cause floor burns on your body when sliding.

[representing]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If a trainer gives them something to put on their arm, that does not count?

You will not find any part of this rule that says a note is required by a doctor. The only part in basketball rules that require a doctor's note is the one you need if a player is unconscious. If a player is not unconscious, there is no note needed. That has absolutely nothing to do with this issue and what is worn on the arm. In football we need a note to verify that a players is allowed to wear a cast, but that rule requires specific specifications and says what kind of doctor (MD/DO is needed) can and cannot provide that information. So in other words a "trainer" on their own cannot write and note and say a player is cleared to play.

You are reading too much into the rule and what is required.

Peace

one other time that it is listed in the book that you need a physician's note is under Rule 3.4.3 EXCEPTION:

State associations may on an individual basis permit a player to participate while wearing a head covering if it meets the following criteria:
a. for medical or cosmetic reasons - In the event a participant is required by a licensed medical physician to cover his/her head with a covering or wrap, the physician's statement is required before the state association can approve a covering or wrap which is not abrasive, hard or dangerous to any other player and which is attached in such a way it is highly unlikely that it will come off during play.
b. OMITTED

My sister had to wear a face mask her junior year after breaking her nose in two different places. She had to get the face mask approved with the state before wearing it.