Elbow Pad

[representing]

Originally Posted by jdmara

{Don't have my books with me} Are elbow pads illegal equipment? I always thought they were but in the (college) game I'm watching, one of the players is wearing a sleeve with an apparent hex pad integrated. Just curious

I'm concerned with FED

-Josh

FED???

I don't know what it is in college ball, but in high school under the NFHS 3-5-2:

a. A Guard, cast or brace made of hard and unyielding leather, plaster, pliable (soft) plastic, metal or any other hard substance may not be worn on the elbow, hand, finger/thumb, wrist or forearm; even though covered with soft padding.

b and c omitted

d. must be worn for medical reasons.

A sleeve is not an illegal material, but it must be worn for medical reasons, accompanied by a doctor's note saying it was prescribed to wear this during sporting events.

Not sure what the hex pattern would be for, could be just a cushion inside because she probably injured her elbow and wants to protect it from excessive contact to avoid further, serious injuries.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by representing

she probably injured her elbow .

Are you watching the same game or did you just assume he'd be watching a game with gurrllllzzzz playing?

[representing]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Are you watching the same game or did you just assume he'd be watching a game with gurrllllzzzz playing?

I'm psychic

nah, I thought he said it was a women's college game in one way or another for some reason and I just said "she". But yes, I would usually say he/she in this kind of situation.

Is it a women's college game?

[JRutledge]

No, they are not illegal at any level. Not unless they are hard and abrasive material. But a traditional pad has always been legal. Players just do not wear them anymore like they once did.

Peace

[representing]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

No, they are not illegal at any level. Not unless they are hard and abrasive material. But a traditional pad has always been legal. Players just do not wear them anymore like they once did.

Peace

Allen Iverson-style sleeves are illegal in NFHS unless prescribed by a doctor, and the player or coach has an actual doctor's note saying that he/she must wear one.

Nothing covering the elbow or above is allowed without a doctor's note for medical reasons only.

Also, as for hard items, they are allowed on the upper arm or shoulder but must be padded. They are not allowed at all on the elbow, hand, finger/thumb, wrist or forearm. Not even with soft padding.

You should read up on Rule 3, Section 5, Article 2(a through d).

[Adam]

So, which rule says a doctor's note is required for a compression sleeve?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

So, which rule says a doctor's note is required for a compression sleeve?

As you already know, there is no such rule.

I believe that the NFHS only requires a note from a doctor if a player that has been unconscious wants to return to the game. Otherwise, NFHS rules don't say anything about a note for any other reason. In some cases the NFHS states that some equipment, for example head coverings, must be approved by the state association, but the NFHS doesn't say that the approval must be in writing, or be available to the official. Now state associations may have a different set of guidelines, but that is separate from any NFHS rules. We may have fifty different sets of guidelines.

[representing]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

So, which rule says a doctor's note is required for a compression sleeve?

the part that says "must be worn for medical purposes". Players must prove that they are worn for medical purposes and not as an adornment, thus a medical note must be in accompany with this situation.

Now that you said that though, it is possible each state association have their own method for proving it is worn for medical reasons. I know at least in PIAA we have to see a doctor's note of some sort that says items such as compression sleeves must be worn for medical purposes. Not sure how it is if it is different in other state's association or if this was something that the NFHS said.

[Adam]

Some states want you to ask, some states want you to assume, some states want you to see a note. Here, we just ask. "Is that for a medical reason?" An affirmative answer is all I need, no Dr. note required. We were told the same thing when it came to religious attire. Leave it alone and contact the state office.

As long as it's not a safety issue, of course.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by representing

the part that says "must be worn for medical purposes". Players must prove that they are worn for medical purposes and not as an adornment, thus a medical note must be in accompany with this situation.

If a trainer gives them something to put on their arm, that does not count?

You will not find any part of this rule that says a note is required by a doctor. The only part in basketball rules that require a doctor's note is the one you need if a player is unconscious. If a player is not unconscious, there is no note needed. That has absolutely nothing to do with this issue and what is worn on the arm. In football we need a note to verify that a players is allowed to wear a cast, but that rule requires specific specifications and says what kind of doctor (MD/DO is needed) can and cannot provide that information. So in other words a "trainer" on their own cannot write and note and say a player is cleared to play.

You are reading too much into the rule and what is required.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by representing

the part that says "must be worn for medical purposes". Players must prove that they are worn for medical purposes and not as an adornment, thus a medical note must be in accompany with this situation.

Now that you said that though, it is possible each state association have their own method for proving it is worn for medical reasons. I know at least in PIAA we have to see a doctor's note of some sort that says items such as compression sleeves must be worn for medical purposes. Not sure how it is if it is different in other state's association or if this was something that the NFHS said.

Actually, the NFHS has said the opposite from what you have written. You are new here, but if you would have done a search of our previous threads, you would have seen that I posted the NFHS answer to what "worn for medical purposes" means over two years ago.

NEW 3-5-2d

From the other thread with above link:

This was an editorial change…no need for any kind of documentation….from a doctor or otherwise. We can make certain assumptions about what is being worn…knee sleeve, brace, etc. are usually worn for medical purposes. If there is a doubt, all the official has to do is ask the student-athlete, coach, trainer, anyone….”is that being worn for medical purposes?” If the answer is yes, then it’s fine. Vast majority of items will comply. No need to over-think or over-officiate this. If anything was required, medical documentation or a doctor’s note, it would have been stated that way.

Mary Struckhoff
Assistant Director
Basketball & Softball Rules Editor

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by representing

Allen Iverson-style sleeves are illegal in NFHS unless prescribed by a doctor, and the player or coach has an actual doctor's note saying that he/she must wear one.

Nothing covering the elbow or above is allowed without a doctor's note for medical reasons only.

Not true. Those sleeves are completely legal and to be assumed to be worn for medical purposes. There is nothing in the rule that says a doctor must subscribe them to be worn or better yet, nothing that says a note must be produced. Unless your jurisdiction wants this, you do not even have to verify this information.

Originally Posted by representing

Also, as for hard items, they are allowed on the upper arm or shoulder but must be padded. They are not allowed at all on the elbow, hand, finger/thumb, wrist or forearm. Not even with soft padding.

You should read up on Rule 3, Section 5, Article 2(a through d).

The only things that cannot be worn in the elbow are wristbands (outside of this discussion) that I have ever seen made clear in the past two years. Wearing and elbow pad (designed by for the elbow) is perfectly legal. There are also some descriptions of this in the Simplified and Illustrated book. You either did not read the rule correctly or you are assuming what is illegal.

Peace

[representing]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Not true. Those sleeves are completely legal and to be assumed to be worn for medical purposes. There is nothing in the rule that says a doctor must subscribe them to be worn or better yet, nothing that says a note must be produced. Unless your jurisdiction wants this, you do not even have to verify this information.

You're partially right. While it should be assumed that it is for medical purposes, that's the only reason for it to be legal. BUT, if it is used for adornment, then it is illegal. Those arm sleeves are popular on the market ever since Allen Iverson has started wearing one when he was first with the Sixers.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The only things that cannot be worn in the elbow are wristbands (outside of this discussion) that I have ever seen made clear in the past two years. Wearing and elbow pad (designed by for the elbow) is perfectly legal. There are also some descriptions of this in the Simplified and Illustrated book. You either did not read the rule correctly or you are assuming what is illegal.

Peace

Ok, I'm not so sure about elbow pads anymore. I don't think "pads" fit under "guards, casts, braces and compression sleeves" under rule 3.5.2. However, it doesn't say anything about whether pads are legal or not. So, I I couldn't tell you whether they are legal or not. For now, I will take your word until I talk with the chapter rules interpreter at our next meeting.

But like it was said earlier, elbow pads are very rare, I don't think I've seen an elbow pad in the 6 years I've been officiating. I have seen knee pads, but only in youth leagues on floors that are old, wooden and hard, and will cause floor burns on your body when sliding.

[BillyMac]

Here in my little corner of the Provisions State, if a player is in the warmup line wearing tape on an earlobe, we have been told to ask the player if there is a earring under the tape. If he, or she, replies, "Yes", then we are to inform them that they will not be allowed to play or warmup, with earrings. On the other hand, if the player replies, "No", then we have been told to end the discussion right then and there, and he, or she, continues to warmup, and plays in the game.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by representing

You're partially right. While it should be assumed that it is for medical purposes, that's the only reason for it to be legal. BUT, if it is used for adornment, then it is illegal. Those arm sleeves are popular on the market ever since Allen Iverson has started wearing one when he was first with the Sixers.

You say he's partially right. Where was he wrong?
Jrut makes a good point. The rule says it must be worn for medical reasons, not that it must be prescribed by a doctor. What if the kid has a 2nd degree burn on his arm? He won't see a doctor, but the trainer might have the sleeves around that will protect it.
What if he just got a tattoo and needs to protect it from his sweat? Again, the compression sleeve works well to prevent infection here. I take Nyquil for medical reasons but it's never been prescribed to me.

Nothing says it has to be a prescribed device.