bad day

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by representing

technically, you could have ended the game, as that would be a forfeiture brought on by the coach. However, i would have t'd him up too and see if that would get him to put in another player. If not after that, then automatic forfeit.

Forfeiting a game is the last thing you ever want to do, under any situation.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Forfeiting a game is the last thing you ever want to do, under any situation.

Gee, would that be because it's not the rule?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Gee, would that be because it's not the rule?

What, exactly, do you mean by this? There are provisions for a forfeit under extreme circumstances. I personally did it once.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

What, exactly, do you mean by this? There are provisions for a forfeit under extreme circumstances. I personally did it once.

You're correct, but failing to provide a sub within 20 seconds does not qualify.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You're correct, but failing to provide a sub within 20 seconds does not qualify.

But, then, after being assessed a technical, what if he still doesn't provide the sub?

The phrase "......repeatedly commits technical-foul infractions...." is contained in 5-4-1. At some point you would have no choice.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

But, then, after being assessed a technical, what if he still doesn't provide the sub?

The phrase "......repeatedly commits technical-foul infractions...." is contained in 5-4-1. At some point you would have no choice.

Agreed. In this scenario, once it becomes obvious he's going to be an a$$, start it again. He'll have his two if he doesn't comply. I'm not sure the rule really addresses what to do here, though, but this situation could conceivably escalate to forfeiture. First, however, you'd have:
1. first T and the seat belt.
2. second T and ejection.
3. Now, you're dealing with the Assistant coach who just watched you dump his boss. Think he's really going to push you too hard?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Agreed. In this scenario, once it becomes obvious he's going to be an a$$, start it again. He'll have his two if he doesn't comply. I'm not sure the rule really addresses what to do here, though, but this situation could conceivably escalate to forfeiture. First, however, you'd have:
1. first T and the seat belt.
2. second T and ejection.
3. Now, you're dealing with the Assistant coach who just watched you dump his boss. Think he's really going to push you too hard?

That, or an ejected coach who doesn't comply with leaving the gymnasium, in which case you would definitely be supported in declaring a forfeit.

Anyway, there's no support for the forfeit prior to that escalation, IMO.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Agreed. In this scenario, once it becomes obvious he's going to be an a$$, start it again. He'll have his two if he doesn't comply. I'm not sure the rule really addresses what to do here, though, but this situation could conceivably escalate to forfeiture. First, however, you'd have:
1. first T and the seat belt.
2. second T and ejection.
3. Now, you're dealing with the Assistant coach who just watched you dump his boss. Think he's really going to push you too hard?

There is sometimes no figuring what people might do. My experience went like this.

jr. high girls

Whistle for a violation.

Coach: "YOU'RE CRAZY! YOU ARE CRAZY!!"

whack

Coach: (closer and louder) "YOU'LL NEVER DO THIS TO ME AGAIN!!"

whack (bye)

A female teacher and the principal came to finish the game. She did the coaching. He just sat there. Their team was down and the game was already over for all practical purposes, when a timeout was called with just a few seconds left.

Principal: "This is the second time I've seen you throw a game."

whack

Principal: "Good, call another."

whack

Principal: "Why don't you just go to hell."

ball game

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Agreed. In this scenario, once it becomes obvious he's going to be an a$$, start it again. He'll have his two if he doesn't comply. I'm not sure the rule really addresses what to do here, though, but this situation could conceivably escalate to forfeiture. First, however, you'd have:
1. first T and the seat belt.
2. second T and ejection.
3. Now, you're dealing with the Assistant coach who just watched you dump his boss. Think he's really going to push you too hard?

"The referee shall forfeit the game if a team refuses to play after being instructed to do so by any official. The referee may also forfeit a game if any player, team member, bench personnel or coach fails to comply with any technical-foul penalty, or repeatedly commits technical-foul infractions or other acts which make a travesty of the game. If the team to which the game is forfeited is ahead, the score at the time of forfeiture shall stand. If this team is not ahead, the score shall be recorded as 2-0 in its favor." (NFHS 5-4)

If the bonehead still won't give you a replacement after you whack him you could quite logically consider that a refusal to play. It also fits very nicely with "repeatedly commits technical-foul infractions". Both are grounds for a forfeit.

However, if it were me I'd whack him again and send him packing. Hopefully that solves to the problem. As long as his successor gets me a replacement PDQ, we go on (albeit with his successor sporting a leash measurable only in microns). Otherwise we're all going home.

[mbyron]

Sounds like you've already reflected on and analyzed the game. Now file it away, get back on the floor, and have some fun.

[rsl]

Lots of good advice... thanks guys.

This game was actually last Friday, and I have been contemplating all week.

It seems an earlier T would have been in order, then I would have gotten the right coach instead of the second coach.

I still need to figure out how to handle coaches- I didn't think fast enough on my feet. Frankly, I didn't think two seconds on the clock would be the trigger for the coach. I'm still confused about that one.

Back on the court tomorrow for a JV game with a varsity partner- that should help. Then I have a freshman game Friday with another rookie. We'll see if I'm ready.

Thanks Again!

[Adam]

If the varsity partner is someone you respect and whose career you'd like to follow, ask him for his opinion (or her) of your situation last week. You'll be able to give more details on the coach's behavior; and he may be familiar enough with the coach to advice that's better than we can offer here.

[Lcubed48]

Originally Posted by rsl

Lots of good advice... thanks guys.

This game was actually last Friday, and I have been contemplating all week.

Did you conduct a post game with your partner after all that mess?
I had a similar stich last season. I was doing a BJV game with my little brother. I had called a double personal foul. Upon returning from reporting it at the table, I see my partner is talking with the one coach whose team isn't going to receive the POI throw in. Just as I walk up, I hear the coach ask him whose ball will it be. He responds that we will use the AP meaning it is now his team's throw in. I stepped in with the correct ruling, and told him that I would take care of everything at half time. We didn't hear anymore about it from him. I put my partner on the correct page during the intermission.
AND, come back strong!!