bad day

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

What, exactly, do you mean by this? There are provisions for a forfeit under extreme circumstances. I personally did it once.

You're correct, but failing to provide a sub within 20 seconds does not qualify.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You're correct, but failing to provide a sub within 20 seconds does not qualify.

But, then, after being assessed a technical, what if he still doesn't provide the sub?

The phrase "......repeatedly commits technical-foul infractions...." is contained in 5-4-1. At some point you would have no choice.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

But, then, after being assessed a technical, what if he still doesn't provide the sub?

The phrase "......repeatedly commits technical-foul infractions...." is contained in 5-4-1. At some point you would have no choice.

Agreed. In this scenario, once it becomes obvious he's going to be an a$$, start it again. He'll have his two if he doesn't comply. I'm not sure the rule really addresses what to do here, though, but this situation could conceivably escalate to forfeiture. First, however, you'd have:
1. first T and the seat belt.
2. second T and ejection.
3. Now, you're dealing with the Assistant coach who just watched you dump his boss. Think he's really going to push you too hard?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Agreed. In this scenario, once it becomes obvious he's going to be an a$$, start it again. He'll have his two if he doesn't comply. I'm not sure the rule really addresses what to do here, though, but this situation could conceivably escalate to forfeiture. First, however, you'd have:
1. first T and the seat belt.
2. second T and ejection.
3. Now, you're dealing with the Assistant coach who just watched you dump his boss. Think he's really going to push you too hard?

That, or an ejected coach who doesn't comply with leaving the gymnasium, in which case you would definitely be supported in declaring a forfeit.

Anyway, there's no support for the forfeit prior to that escalation, IMO.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Agreed. In this scenario, once it becomes obvious he's going to be an a$$, start it again. He'll have his two if he doesn't comply. I'm not sure the rule really addresses what to do here, though, but this situation could conceivably escalate to forfeiture. First, however, you'd have:
1. first T and the seat belt.
2. second T and ejection.
3. Now, you're dealing with the Assistant coach who just watched you dump his boss. Think he's really going to push you too hard?

There is sometimes no figuring what people might do. My experience went like this.

jr. high girls

Whistle for a violation.

Coach: "YOU'RE CRAZY! YOU ARE CRAZY!!"

whack

Coach: (closer and louder) "YOU'LL NEVER DO THIS TO ME AGAIN!!"

whack (bye)

A female teacher and the principal came to finish the game. She did the coaching. He just sat there. Their team was down and the game was already over for all practical purposes, when a timeout was called with just a few seconds left.

Principal: "This is the second time I've seen you throw a game."

whack

Principal: "Good, call another."

whack

Principal: "Why don't you just go to hell."

ball game

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by just another ref

There is sometimes no figuring what people might do. My experience went like this.

jr. high girls

Whistle for a violation.

Coach: "YOU'RE CRAZY! YOU ARE CRAZY!!"

whack

Coach: (closer and louder) "YOU'LL NEVER DO THIS TO ME AGAIN!!"

whack (bye)

A female teacher and the principal came to finish the game. She did the coaching. He just sat there. Their team was down and the game was already over for all practical purposes, when a timeout was called with just a few seconds left.

Principal: "This is the second time I've seen you throw a game."

whack

Principal: "Good, call another."

whack

Principal: "Why don't you just go to hell."

ball game

This would be the one time I would look forward to filling out the paperwork...

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Smitty

This would be the one time I would look forward to filling out the paperwork...

No paperwork for jr. high here.

He followed me, still talking.


"I'm gonna call (my assignor)!"

Good, I thought. Don't forget to mention the "go to hell" part.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by just another ref

No paperwork for jr. high here.

No paperwork required, or no paperwork allowed?

It's worth a report.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by just another ref

There is sometimes no figuring what people might do. My experience went like this.

jr. high girls

Whistle for a violation.

Coach: "YOU'RE CRAZY! YOU ARE CRAZY!!"

whack

Coach: (closer and louder) "YOU'LL NEVER DO THIS TO ME AGAIN!!"

whack (bye)

A female teacher and the principal came to finish the game. She did the coaching. He just sat there. Their team was down and the game was already over for all practical purposes, when a timeout was called with just a few seconds left.

Principal: "This is the second time I've seen you throw a game."

whack

Principal: "Good, call another."

whack

Principal: "Why don't you just go to hell."

ball game

That is fantastic. Seriously great stuff.

And all that in a Jr. High girls game. Love it.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Agreed. In this scenario, once it becomes obvious he's going to be an a$$, start it again. He'll have his two if he doesn't comply. I'm not sure the rule really addresses what to do here, though, but this situation could conceivably escalate to forfeiture. First, however, you'd have:
1. first T and the seat belt.
2. second T and ejection.
3. Now, you're dealing with the Assistant coach who just watched you dump his boss. Think he's really going to push you too hard?

"The referee shall forfeit the game if a team refuses to play after being instructed to do so by any official. The referee may also forfeit a game if any player, team member, bench personnel or coach fails to comply with any technical-foul penalty, or repeatedly commits technical-foul infractions or other acts which make a travesty of the game. If the team to which the game is forfeited is ahead, the score at the time of forfeiture shall stand. If this team is not ahead, the score shall be recorded as 2-0 in its favor." (NFHS 5-4)

If the bonehead still won't give you a replacement after you whack him you could quite logically consider that a refusal to play. It also fits very nicely with "repeatedly commits technical-foul infractions". Both are grounds for a forfeit.

However, if it were me I'd whack him again and send him packing. Hopefully that solves to the problem. As long as his successor gets me a replacement PDQ, we go on (albeit with his successor sporting a leash measurable only in microns). Otherwise we're all going home.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

However, if it were me I'd whack him again and send him packing. Hopefully that solves to the problem. As long as his successor gets me a replacement PDQ, we go on (albeit with his successor sporting a leash measurable only in microns). Otherwise we're all going home.

Me too. In Ohio ejected coaches are subject to a $100 fine and are required to take an online (anger management?) course at their own expense (I've heard costs between $35-50). A second ejection in a season wins an all-expenses-charged trip to visit the commish in Columbus.

I'm not passing up the consolation prizes just to get home early one night.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

If the bonehead still won't give you a replacement after you whack him you could quite logically consider that a refusal to play. It also fits very nicely with "repeatedly commits technical-foul infractions". Both are grounds for a forfeit.

The comic book (Simplified and Illustrated) has a statement along the lines that after issuing a technical foul to a coach for him/her refusing to send in a sub on a disqualified player, the official should not issue a second technical but should declare a forfeit.

I don't see that exact play in the casebook though and I think I'd prefer to go the route of issuing a second technical.

[Back In The Saddle]

Me too.